The Biggest Table

The Biggest Table--Episode 01
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Ty Hoad: [00:00:00] Why has there, I mean, the absurdity of the simplicity of these two things with this fresh glazed fruit and this fresh glazed donut married together and I'm eating them together.

And it's like. Heaven on earth.

Andrew Camp: Hello, and welcome to the first episode of the biggest table. I am your host Andrew camp. And in this inaugural episode, I sit down with my good friend, Ty Hoad. And we talk about food and the memories of food especially those that we have shared together which include everything from simple donuts to beautiful wide, your short ribs to the sublime white truffle risotto and we do this all while enjoying a gin and tonic i hope you enjoy the episode

Hello and welcome to The Biggest Table. I am your host, Andrew Camp. This podcast is an avenue to dialogue about the totality of our food experience. Everything from gardening, to preparing, to eating, to hospitality, [00:01:00] all rooted in our understanding and beginning with our understanding of the Lord's Table.

But really what I want to do is to help us engage in this act in a more holistic way to understand how it, how its power to transform us is evident every time we gather around a table. For us to experience God's transformative love in real and meaningful ways And then from that just to get a better glimpse and better understanding of what it actually means to be human In today's age . And so how did this all begin for me?

Well, it really began as I was living, um, in China, of all places, after I finished my undergrad degree. Um, and as I was there, and as I was sharing food with other missionaries, I began to just wonder why we actually spent so much time at this table. Why did we linger at the table long after dessert had served, sitting on very uncomfortable chairs, but content to stay, even though that the living room furniture, which was way more comfortable, was...

A few [00:02:00] feet away, and yet we lingered, and so I'm wondering, what is it about food that just calls us and beckons us to linger at this table? What is it about food that just feels qualitatively different than so many other daily activities we engage in? And so as I spent time in China around the table, Um, I was actually reading a book by Eugene Peterson when a light went off.

It's his book called Living the Resurrection, and Eugene is one of my favorite authors and has informed my understanding of Christian spirituality and the life we live in, um, more ways than I can recount. But it was in this book that one simple sentence, um, caused the light bulb to go off and sent me on this, this journey that I've been on for the past 15 or so years.

And, and here's what Eugene wrote. He says the gospel writers are fond of telling stories of Jesus at meals. The meal was one of their favorite settings for showing Jesus as he revealed himself, talked, worked, and welcomed men and women to him. [00:03:00] And it was after reading that one simple sentence that I couldn't help but see food on every page, in every verse, in every chapter, in every book of the Bible.

Food plays a huge role from the beginning of creation when God plants Adam and Eve in a garden and plants trees full of delightful food Good to eat pleasing to the eye all around them and that theme of food runs all the way through scripture culminating At the end of times when all of god's creation is made right and we are once again gathered around the table as the marriage Supper of the lamb and so as I studied scripture as I read It just began to seem to me that whenever God wanted to communicate something of paramount importance, He seemed to use food.

Sin entered the world through food. We experience salvation through food, whether that's beginning with the Jewish people in the Passover, or that's continuing with the Lord's Supper, each and every time we [00:04:00] gather as a people. And so for the past 15 or so years, I've been on this journey, and this journey has taken me places I couldn't imagine.

It took me into culinary school. It took me into a renewed relationship With my grandfather that I hope to talk about more later as the show progresses And more episodes are are recorded. It's led me to books It's led me to meeting amazing people and talking with other people about this And all throughout this my idea hasn't been just for myself but i've wanted to help the church understand food to to reclaim the table as a means of A formation, a place in which a space is open for us to just be transformed and to be who we are and to settle into something more than just eating.

And so I've always wanted to pursue this, but the timing never seemed right. A few months ago, I found myself with more time because I lost my job, um, which, which isn't the greatest way to [00:05:00] start a podcast, but it also allowed me an opportunity to think, okay, what's next for me. And as I sat, and as I tried to listen to what Jesus was saying to me, it felt like this, this theme of food and spirituality kept coming back as a passion for mine as a way to enliven me.

And so I thought, well, let's start with a podcast. Um, and so here we are, I don't know where we're going to go. I don't know what's going to, where this is all going to lead, who's going to be on the podcast. Um, but what I do know is, feels like I need to take this step. And so I hope you're, you join this journey with me and see, see what happens.

And so to start things off with this first episode, um, I can actually think of no one better to have as my first guest than my good friend, Ty Hoad And so Tyler Hoad is a follower of Jesus, a missionary to Brazil and Mozambique, husband to Heather, and father of four. He is the co founder of E210 Mission, and he loves Liverpool FC, Formula One.

In all manner of street food. [00:06:00] And yes, I think he still loves the Lakers, but he forgot to mention that, but

Ty Hoad: I do still love

the Lakers.

Andrew Camp: Good. I'm I was gonna, I was a little worried when you gave me this, the sentence that the Lakers didn't make an appearance, but welcome to the show. Ty.

Ty Hoad: Hey,

thanks. It's a pleasure to be here.

And I'm, I'm thrilled that you're embarking on this endeavor.

Andrew Camp: Um, so you and I have this weird journey of friendship that just sort of, you just sort of showed up in my life. Um, can you tell the listeners how, how and why, like we got to know each other first? Yeah.

Ty Hoad: Uh, so, so. Uh, not, not in the stray cat manner.

I just showed up in your life, but, um, I was part of a Bible study, uh, with your father on Saturday mornings. And, um, you had just completed your undergrad and we're getting ready to leave for China. And he had requested prayer for his son, whom I'd never met. And I thought that was strange because we'd been in fellowship for a couple of years at that point, but I'd never [00:07:00] met you.

And, um, so I called you up, we met for coffee, I think the week before you left for China and, um, we sat outside the Starbucks and that was it. That was the beginning of, you know, a friendship that, uh, has been a real blessing in my life and I hope it's been, you know, equally fruitful on your side as well.

Andrew Camp: No, absolutely. Um, yeah, and then while I was living in China, um, Ty was working for a food purchasing place, right? Or I don't even remember what, you know, your role was, but.

Ty Hoad: Yeah, I was,

uh, I was working for a grocery wholesaler in Southern California and had a meeting, had meetings, uh, in China at a trade show and I thought, I'm on the continent, why not go see Andrew?

So, took an extra week and.

Took a flight and

Andrew Camp: so that's when we hung out and that's really where I remember our friendship Blossoming and you know, and it it's a special person who comes all the way to China to [00:08:00] visit somebody and so You know, and so so, you know, Ty and I have shared a lot of experiences together I mean, that's why I wanted to have him on this episode But before we talk about what we've shared together over over food, which has been a lot Ideally, I would love for these podcasts to be recorded in person As we all sat around a table sharing food, sharing drinks, but obviously you're in Brazil right now.

I'm in Flagstaff, Arizona, you know, it's not neither of us have the means in which we can just hop on a jet and just make that happen.

Ty Hoad: Sadly, sadly, I am still a poor, poor missionary

Andrew Camp: and I am an unemployed.

So, yes, yeah, not going to happen. So. Actually, it was my wife, Claire's idea. She said, well, what if you, you share a drink with, um, the person and

Ty Hoad: God

bless the women in our lives.

Andrew Camp: Exactly.

Yes. Um, we, we're not going to talk about [00:09:00] what time we're actually recording this. So you don't judge us. But, um, and so, yeah, my hope is at each podcast, um, If the guest wants to engage in it, we'll, we'll share a drink, whether that's coffee, tea, soda, water, or maybe a more alcoholic adult beverage, or as Claire and I used to call it when we had young kids, we still have young kids when they were babies and toddlers, we called it attitude adjustment time,

you know, and so my hope is to, to replicate their drink as close as possible. It may not be possible to drink exactly what they're drinking given supplies. Um, but. Yeah. We can at least get close and we can share a drink. And so, so Ty, what, what did you choose for us

today?

Ty Hoad: Uh,

well, because I'm more, I'm later in the day than you are.

Um, I chose a gin and tonic because it's a, a rather hot day in Brazil. And I, I [00:10:00] almost chose a, a caipirinha made with Brazilian cachaça. Um, but then, you know, cachaça and caipirinhas have a habit of. Being a little much. One is too few and two is too

many.

Andrew Camp: Yes, I've, I've heard stories of endeavors, but what, what is, I love a gin and tonic too.

And so I'm, I'm what, there's something so beautiful about a gin and tonic to me, but what is it about for you that besides it's just refreshing?

Ty Hoad: Uh, really the refreshments, the first part, the, the gin part is born out of, you know, the original gins were the distillation of the juniper berry and, um, the Ozark mountains where I'm from in, in Southwest Missouri, um, you can still buy, uh, distilled.

Spirits from vendors, [00:11:00] um, who, who grow their own junipers and, um, yeah, so that, that for me was it. I was, I think, uh, um, I think when I was of age and, um, it was a hot summer day and I think someone offered me a, a sparkly zesty drink and I said, Ooh, what is this? And they said a gin and tonic. And I said, well, I think I like the flavor of that.

And, um, Thus was born my enjoyment of an afternoon gin and tonic.

Andrew Camp: No, absolutely. One, it's an easy drink to make. It's quick. It's simple. Uh, but it's also, yeah, the simplicity is, there's something beautiful too, I think, in that, of just tonic water, gin, and a little lime. Yeah. Making something more than, than the sum of its parts.

Ty Hoad: It really does. It's strange how some of the simplest, um, drinks can do that too. Um, [00:12:00] and actually one of my absolute favorites is a, is a, is a mocktail gin and tonic, um, which is three drops of artificial sweetener along with my tonic water and a lime wedge. And I swear it's the same thing. Um, and it's just as refreshing and wonderful and it's so simple and it's, it's really, um, It's a bright spot in an afternoon, and I, I think that's amazing that the Lord gives us those tiny little tastes of things that are wonderful in their simplicity.

Andrew Camp: No, and there's, there's something to be said for a great crafted cocktail, you know, of which, you know, like that these new bartenders can do that you're like, wow. But sometimes the simple, um, yeah, it's just that reminder, you know, a simple, um, a simple gift, you know. So yeah, no, I, yeah, the gin and tonic. Do you have a favorite gin?

You know, um,

Ty Hoad: you know, I, I don't have enough money [00:13:00] to have favorite gins , so, okay. Um, um, I do, I do like, um, you know, small batch distilled, you know, makers Gins that I come across when I'm somewhere that, Hey, would you like to try our gin infused with whatever botanicals are local to wherever it's distilled?

And those are lovely. Um, but for me, Um, I, I don't have, I, I don't think I have sophisticated enough palette, um, to differentiate certain gins to have that kind of, um, thing to have that kind of preference. So I would say that my favorite gin is the gin that I can buy that is

inexpensive.

Andrew Camp: Yup. That's, yeah.

Likewise. Yes. Our, our go to has always been Bombay Sapphire. You know, from Sam's Club, you know, 35 for a big bottle, you know, it works.

Ty Hoad: I love

that.

Andrew Camp: But we [00:14:00] digress. So, you know, um, food, Ty, you know, um, you and I have shared a lot of memories around food. Um, you know, and everything, what was it on my Facebook memories today? It was, you know, um, art that taps beer dinners. We went to a few times.

Ty Hoad: Yeah, I saw

that this week. Oh my goodness. That was extraordinary, right?

Yeah. But the pairing of all the different, um, uh, different brews of beer, all the different varieties of beer that this microbrewery had, and then pairing them with the different courses of, of the meal. It's

extraordinary.

Andrew Camp: It was. Yeah. No, everything always worked together. And it was, I think we went a couple of times and it was always a highlight and I never slept well that night, but I can't understand why.

Ty Hoad: Too many flavors. Too much good food.

Andrew Camp: Too much good food. Yes. That must've been it. Yes. Full bellies.

Ty Hoad: Well, the beers are

always small, so.

Andrew Camp: They were. No, they did. Yeah. No, they did a great job of [00:15:00] just, yeah. Pairing the food and the beer and realizing that beer was more than, you know, beer. Then Bud Light, you know, or that, you know, microbreweries have since taken off.

But this, this was, what was this? It was back in 2007, 2008, where it just felt like, you know, microbreweries were beginning something better and more, you know,

Ty Hoad: well, I think, I think maybe in the late nineties, the mid to late nineties in the early two thousands. microbreweries really became the in thing, right?

And you had all these different, uh, you know, the peanut butter and jelly stout, or you had the, you know, whatever blonde and the whatever IPA. And I think that what got lost in that, in a pursuit to make. interesting beers was developing the richness of the palate and how you could enjoy that with the things that you were pairing it with, whether that be pizza or a burger, or, you know, in the [00:16:00] case of taps, a seven course meal.

And so I really, I really, really appreciated, um, that particular, uh, microbrewery, but also others who were more concerned with making a quality product that, that. You know, could span the spectrum of different things, you know, from flavor, flavor profiles to completely light to completely stout and those kinds of things to, um, Yeah.

And I, and I like how it's evolved. I like how the industry's evolved too. And how many flavors there are, different things. The reds especially are tremendously delicious to me. Um, I, I love the, the red lagers. I think they're really rich in flavor and they're, um, you know, they're multi dimensional. Um, you know, having them with, um, you know, a certain savory food brings out a, And, uh,

Yeah, so I do have my preferences. Yeah,

Andrew Camp: likewise. [00:17:00] Yeah. And I've always veered towards those breweries and beers that aren't trying to just be unique for uniqueness sake. I feel like some breweries have just wanted to brew like totally abstract off the wall beers versus just, okay, how do we do something?

Again, to return to the simplicity act, how do we do something with the simple hops in the grains and make something that just tastes good, you know, yeah, and a consistent tastes good. Yeah. I'm not one for fads or uniqueness, you know, just for, for the sake of it. But anyway, um, what about food for you?

Where, as you think about your own journey, where, where has food been transformative for you and even. Yeah. Then where has it been harmful at times, maybe, or destructive if you, if you have those stories?

Ty Hoad: Oh my

gosh, Andrew, I wish I'd known about that question. Um, yeah. Um, so we didn't have a lot of money growing up.[00:18:00]

Um, my mom, my, my mother, she was a single mother. Um, for most of my childhood, um, and things were hard. I mean, it was, it was tough and, and I think as it is today, um, unhealthy food is cheapest, right? And it's sad to say that, and I don't mean that in a political way at all, I just mean to say that, you know, you can fill a belly with flour and it's not necessarily the healthiest thing.

Um, and so for me, I can remember being young. And really food played zero part in my life at all, um, until I got out on my own and I got to choose what I would eat. And as a, as a matter of saying, Oh, I can, I can afford to choose these things. I ate, um, [00:19:00] too much, um, or I ate unhealthily. So, um, you know, I can remember times in my childhood where we, we had a powdered FDA.

Uh, you know, government eggs and government peanut butter and government cheese, which is fantastic cheese, by the way, it's like perfect. And then I make it, um, but there came a time in my adult life where I was going to prove that I wasn't what my self image of me was. And so, um, I indulged in. Equally unhealthy, um, eating habits and I used food as a way to self medicate a lot of times too, um, which man just led to all sorts of disappointing, um, results, um, not just physically, but, um, you know, eating out, I was harder on, I was harder on the servers because I had put all this weight on this dining experience that the [00:20:00] server had to be perfect or else, you know, I, They had ruined this experience.

Um, or, you know, this. $30 steak had to be absolutely perfect, or they had ruined this experience. There was no real dining for the sake of enjoying the meal. It was me trying to fill this, um, void of identity at the table. And I think that maybe there's a, there's a greater expression in that too, because as I've become more mature, you know, like now when I go out to restaurants, I often don't read the menu.

I'll ask the server to surprise me with something or just to bring me something. Um, because I don't. I want, I want to be served. I want to, I want to take what's given to me and be grateful for it. I want to eat from a place of contentment and I want to dine from a place of contentment. And in the same way, um, you know, as I began to have a family, I put these [00:21:00] extraordinarily unreal expectations upon my wife, uh, to have this, meal made or to make sure our kids were eating this or that as though, um, other people were seeing what we were eating.

And I'd have to be ashamed to say that, you know, I fed my kids ramen noodles when that was really all they wanted. You know, they wanted dino chicken nuggets and, you know, And, and by the way, I wish I had a dino chicken nugget here in Brazil. I don't. Um, so I think in so many ways, my, my growing up years and, and, and experience with, with food created some maybe unhealthy expectations of what food was supposed to do that I had to relearn as I matured, um, in my adult years.

And, um, yeah, I'd like to say that I've solved all those issues and unpacked all those bags, but I seem to fill them up every now and then with, you know. Doritos and whatnot. [00:22:00] Um, yeah, I, I think I've taken a different, a different mentality to the table and to consuming now that I used to have. So, I'm not binge eating to satisfy the sadness, or I'm not eating unhealthily to, to self medicate in some, um, unhealthy way.

Andrew Camp: So what would you say, then, is guiding your eating habits? If it's, yeah, if it's not binging and it's not looking for satisfaction. You know, psychologically, spiritually, you know, what

Ty Hoad: well now it's yeah, my hunger, my actual hunger guides it now. I mean, I usually, um, you know, there are all sorts of opinions and my goodness, I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings about when I ought to eat or not eat.

But I think I just become so accustomed to eating at the normal times that, you know, I thought, Oh, well, it's breakfast time. I need to have some [00:23:00] breakfast and I would have breakfast and not even be hungry. And I've, I found myself really, uh, recently, um, here in our ministry, we were, um, praying and fasting to raise a certain amount of money to buy some land, um, to, to move and to begin ministry in this neighborhood.

And we'd begun this 40 days of prayer and fasting. And we'd also engaged in prayer and fasting with our local church here. And, um, and fasting for. You know, other reasons as well and what I found in those times of fasting was that, um, I was really more content than I thought I was, that I really wasn't as physically hungry as I had thought I was.

And now when I am hungry, uh, it might be, [00:24:00] you know, not until noon or one in the afternoon, it might be the only meal I have, but I'm so much more grateful as I'm, as I'm eating, I find it easier to be thankful. I find it easier to reflect and be, um, and thankful for what I am eating, but I also am able to enjoy it so much more.

Um, like today I made for myself. A hamburger. And I, I didn't just, you know, make a hamburger and, you know, have a bun and smear it with stuff and do it. Um, I began by, you know, making my patty deliberately while my pan was heating up. And, um, I used coarse ground salt. And, um, I let the pan heat up well with a little bit of oil, added some butter, put the burger on, reduced the heat, covered it, and then I worried about toasting my bun.

And I toasted my bun and I pulled it off and I wrapped it in foil so it would stay warm while it was there. And then I began making an [00:25:00] egg on the side to put on the burger. And I have this cheese, which is native to this region of Brazil. Um, and, uh, I had shredded a little bit of it to put on the burger and on the bun.

Um. I was very deliberate. It took me about 20 minutes to make the burger. And I wrapped it all in foil, constructed, you know, on the bun and everything, wrapped it back in the foil and let it rest, um, for about three minutes. Uh, and it stayed warm. And then I, I sat down with my water and, um, ate my burger and read the book of Ephesians and

it was really, really good. Um, and, uh, and yeah, I probably won't be hungry again until later today. And so I, in many ways, I just think my, my perception of food has changed from this thing that, uh, that I have to have to this thing that I get to have. [00:26:00] Um, and, and, and I get to choose. I mean, oh my goodness.

Um, how blessed am I that I actually get to choose what I'm going to eat? Uh, unlike some people that, um, I've lived with in Mozambique who don't need to choose. They, they get what they get, period. What they can, what they can catch from the ocean, what they can collect at low tide, or, or what they can literally afford.

And, uh, it, yeah. So, so, I would say that, you know, in my, I don't want to say maturity, because I'm definitely not mature. As I have matured and am maturing, um, Yeah, the Lord has really changed my my heart for food and it's not that I don't enjoy it and still You know, don't crave certain flavors, right?

There's a, there's a chef Gary Menes um, be falling off the bone experience that I definitely want to experience again with you. Um, [00:27:00] yeah,

man,

I don't know what he does. It's like,

Andrew Camp: we were, then we were enjoying a McClellan 17 Sherry cask just like by itself was like, Oh my gosh, this is too much, but with that, Oh my goodness.

I'm trying not to cuss, but that was one of those moments where.

Ty Hoad: It is so good, right? The, the sauce, like, what did he do with that sauce? It wasn't just brown sugar and vinegar and, and tomato and, and the things that you put in barbecue sauce. But there was like, I mean, I, one of the things that I have learned and.

I don't want to I don't want to lose the point of your question about what I've experienced as I've matured, but, you know, from day to day, my experience is different and and the living in that day to day with a different mentality and experience of food allows me to have those precious moments where I can remember.

That flavor of that sauce. I can remember exactly what that sauce did with that whiskey [00:28:00] did with that beef when we had it and you and I have had two or three things I know in our lifetime, maybe more than that. But you and I have both eaten it and we've looked at each other after our first or second bite and had tears in our eyes because of the experience we're having, right?

Yeah.

Andrew Camp: Well, one of those, yeah, so we're, what was, this was during COVID and, you know, it was, um, for my 40th birthday, Claire just told me to go visit Ty, cause we hadn't been able to visit, see each other for three years. Um, they had been on their own journey. Um, you know, Heather had had breast cancer. You guys were on this really hard journey.

Um, but she gave me a week just to go visit you guys. Um, yeah. And we got that Chef Gary barbecue takeout. Cause it was, you know, this was November of 2020. You know, L. A. nothing was open still, I don't think, you know, and Chef Gary, a mentor of mine in the culinary world was doing takeout barbecue and he had this Wagyu beef rib that he had smoked on his [00:29:00] custom made grill with olive

Ty Hoad: and eucalyptus

Andrew Camp: wood.

Yeah, something, yeah, something crazy wood that he had hand selected from California, you know, and Chef Gary's just, he really cares about the Provence and the Tarare, you know, and the locality of his food. Um, yeah, and so that's one of those moments where it's just this sublime beef, but I think the first moment demonstrates, I think, the expanse of food experiences because it wasn't a Wagyu beef rib.

Ty Hoad: I know where you're

going.

Andrew Camp: It was a

donut.

Ty Hoad: On a sidewalk, no less on

Andrew Camp: a sidewalk, on a grass along route 66 in Glendora, California. Yes. So the, the donut man, so yeah, this was fall of 2008. I had just started culinary school and my culinary professors in Pasadena. I was at Le Cordon Bleu. They [00:30:00] kept talking about the donut man and how during peach and strawberry season in California, he would just get fresh peaches and fresh strawberries, which I.

There's no words to describe that, a great California strawberry, like, or a great California peach. Like, during those, the heights of those seasons, he gets those ingredients, gets a glazed donut, cuts it in half, and stuffs it full of fresh fruit. Um, and so Ty and I being mature lovers of good food, decided that we needed to take this journey, um, and try it.

So one Saturday morning, we drove up to Glendora and we got this peach donut, uh, and it's one of those moments where, like, we both took a bite, we looked at each other, and we just giggled.

Ty Hoad: [00:31:00] Yeah, giggled and, and, and wept.

Andrew Camp: Yeah. And,

and it's one of those moments that you can't replicate. We didn't ask for it. We weren't anticipating it.

Ty Hoad: I

think what is so, what was so amazing about that is the absurdity that someone had managed to take this glazed donut with this fresh fruit. Why has no one else thought of this? Why has there, I mean, the absurdity of the simplicity of these two things with this fresh glazed fruit and this fresh glazed donut married together and I'm eating them together.

And it's like. Heaven on earth.

Why hasn't anybody thought of this until now? Why am I 40 years old and having this for the first time

in my life?

Andrew Camp: When it's literally been 15 minutes from our homes, you know, [00:32:00] right. Yeah. Cause it's like, again, something, a donut is nothing like there is no redeeming qualities of a donut. Like I eat a donut now and I regret myself for the rest of the day.

Ty Hoad: You're almost like, why did I waste the calories and the effort to eat that

donut?

Andrew Camp: But usually it's with my girls. And so I, I suffer from my girls.

Ty Hoad: Yeah. You got to do what you got to do as a dad.

Andrew Camp: And so here's a donut that is just causing Ty and I

an ethereal experience. Um, or I think of just this resonant experience where we came in contact with something more, but a donut, like it's, it's still a donut. Like that's what I like. And, and even to this day, I still, I've had a peach, that peach donut. I've had the strawberry donut. Yeah. [00:33:00] It's not the same.

Ty Hoad: No. Well, and I think there is something about the first time you experienced something versus the fifth time or the third time. Um, I think that again, I, I don't know if it's expectation. Of, of memory or the, or the feeling, right? So, uh, the, the only, the only example I can give is this, you know, I had a, I had a pastor, um, a missionary in Morocco ask me one time after I was visiting him for the second time.

He said, what is one of your happiest memories from childhood? And it took me a while to remember my happiest memory. Um, And I said, Oh, I know what it is. It would be when I was, you know, five years old and it would be making cinnamon rolls with my daddy. And [00:34:00] as anyone who knows me knows, I, I, at that time I had spent like 15, 17 years pursuing the perfect cinnamon roll recipe.

And until he had asked me that question, I had absolutely zero idea as to why I cared about making good cinnamon. And when he asked that question, it clicked. I got it. And I was like, Oh my goodness, this is why I care so much about this. You know, all the memories that I could have chosen when he asked me about my dad, when he asked me about, you know, you know, the happiest memory from your childhood.

And I came up with this memory with my daddy and I'm thinking about making cinnamon rolls. I suddenly realized, I mean, it was, you know, I don't know how, you know, but I suddenly realized, Oh my goodness, you know, I've been chasing this recipe. I've been doing this recipe for so many years because That was what I wanted.

And so I think sometimes when we, when we, you know, [00:35:00] refresh ourselves with that, with the, the flavor that we're used to, um, it never quite satisfies, right? Because we're, we can't marry the first time that we did something with, you know, the, the, the experience of that first time also, the anticipation and the buildup.

And man, you could preach a sermon about a lot of different things in your life about that, right? Um, but yeah, there's, that is what you're giving up when you do that. And, um, yeah, so, sort of like a, you know, never meet your heroes thing. You know, never try, don't try the peach donut at Donut Man in Glendora, California, because you'll never be the same.

Um, but, but absolutely do go try that donut. Um, but that's, um, I think that's why. I think that's why. And so, um, I think that's another reason why it's so important to keep them at the proper perspective, right? That it's a true blessing. It's a miracle that we get to even enjoy this. Um, [00:36:00] you know, that we even have taste buds.

That we even have taste buds that register pleasant things.

Andrew Camp: And more than that, olfactory senses that can detect tens of thousands of smells and stuff, for good and for bad. Yeah, completely. But that reminds me, like, as you've been talking, I keep coming back to this quote. I'm not going to get it word for word, but it's from Alexander Shimomon, who's an Eastern Orthodox writer, theologian, but like he starts his book for the life of the world, talking about that man was created as a hungry being.

And, you know, as you've talked, as you've shared about, you know, this hunger, both for good and for bad, right? Like food, food points, food is never. The end it's it's a me it feels always like a means to an end um That puts us in touch with something more whether it's it's lost [00:37:00] relationships whether it's longing for for daddy um, whether it's just the joy of a meal shared with friends, but like it's not Food is never the end.

It doesn't you know, and when we make it the end You know, I know, you know, when you were talking about just filling yourself, it's like when food becomes the end, then we're on to a destructive path, you know, but does that resonate with you?

Ty Hoad: Absolutely. Um, because that was the, I think that was the moment that I realized that, um, you know, I was being so unhealthy in my, in my personal habits, unhealthy in my expectations for how my.

You know, my wife performed, you know, her, you know, her evening, Hey, I'm going to make a meal. I don't want to call it responsibility or duty because that's just, you know, it was her [00:38:00] turn. Um, but, but this unhealthy expectation that I placed on that, and it was all because of that. And, um, it's so unfair, you know, it's so unfair to this.

It's so unfair to the precious people in our life, but it's also unfair to the complete stranger at Denny's. Right. Um, like she's supposed to know the entire weight of, you know, of my life story and why this grand slam needs to be perfect for me. Um, you know, it's just unfair. It's, it's unrealistic and, and, and it's, and it's really, like you said, it's destructive.

It leads us onto this destructive path of, of unhealthy consumption, but also it removes the, it removes the element of, of what that was intended to do. Right. I mean, though, you know, at its core, the, the purpose of food is to nourish, right? I mean, God and his mercy made a way for us to continue living. [00:39:00] Um, and I don't want to, you know, I don't want to steal your thunder or speak on your behalf, but I think that that's at its core, that's the purpose of it.

And I think when, you know, when I, when I started to place too much importance on those other things, I just really lost sight of. Why I could be so grateful and so thankful for this simple meal, even if it was dino chicken nuggets and beans and wieners and whatever else it was, doesn't matter, right? Um, because the purpose of this, uh, of this meal is, is, is the community.

Is the nourishment of my soul, not just my body, but my soul and the sacred space of partaking something that is divine.

Andrew Camp: And that reminds me, we're all connected to like, you know, food. You can't eat alone. You never eat a lot like,

Ty Hoad: you know, Even if, even if you physically are eating alone, you're not eating [00:40:00] alone.

Somebody else in that moment is

also eating.

Andrew Camp: Is also eating and made it possible for you to eat. Absolutely. So you're never eating connected from the, from humanity, from, from the soil, from, from the earth, from, from creation. Yeah. You know? And so that's what's, that's always been the beauty of food for me is this, this idea that it reminds us and reminds me our interdependency.

You know, not just on God, but on each other, like, um, you know, and we're removed from it now, like given our, the technology given, which has been great. Right. Like, it's not bad, but you know, like I go, I get boneless, skinless chicken breasts, you know, and my girls think chicken just shows up, right? Like

Ty Hoad: it comes [00:41:00] with a tray,

Andrew Camp: right?

Yeah. Like we're just removed from a lot of what food production is. And again, this isn't, you know, we, we lose something. Yeah. Yeah, in some respects. Yeah. Uh, because still, even when you're No, go ahead. Go ahead.

Ty Hoad: I still remember the first time that, uh, my kids, you know, picked out a chicken in Mozambique, you know,

you know, and it wasn't, you know, it didn't come wrapped in plastic. Um, you know, it came with feathers on and yeah. You know, thankfully somebody else took care of that for me. But still, you know, it was a process.

Andrew Camp: No, for sure. Um, no, food is, there's, there's so many dimensions, you know, that it's just like you go down one rabbit hole with food, but you go down every other rabbit hole, like part of me is like, oh [00:42:00] yeah, having young kids and my girls have been picky eaters, which feels like a cruel joke, given that we love to cook good food, you know, my girls like Kraft Mac and cheese, but at the same time, I'm like, it's, it's still food and there's a moment still to, to share.

Yeah.

Ty Hoad: I think the thing I love about that though is, you know, when I met, when I met the lovely Heather, when I met my wife, um, I remember it was our first date and I asked her what her favorite restaurant was. And she said, McDonald's.

And you know, the, the, the man half of me is like, Oh, snatch that girl up now. I mean, that's like, you know, my goodness. I'm so thankful that, you know, God, at least me, me at least made me concerned enough. Um, you know, in my, in my pursuit of her to ask a [00:43:00] question, why is that, you know, why do you like McDonald's so much?

And for her, it was an emotional connection because my daddy took me there on our daddy daughter dates and, you know, he would take me for pancakes or he would take me for a happy meal. Um. And so, you know, I mean, as I mean, you can, you can argue the, the health benefit and nutrition in McDonald's or, or even craft macaroni and cheese or, or dino chicken nuggets.

But in the end, what a beautiful thing that your girls, just like my daughter, just like my sons, they're going to grow up and they're going to have a memory of, you know, craft box dinner with mom and dad and that, that flavor. However vile and, you know, whatever I may think, they're going to go, wow, I just love that.

It reminds me of home. It reminds me of mom and dad. You know, it reminds me of when we'd get a care package while we were living in Mozambique or Brazil. [00:44:00] You can't, you can't replace that.

Andrew Camp: Because it's never about the food, but it still is about the food. You know, some weird way that I, I, I can't fully grasp myself.

Yeah. Because you and I, also, one of my favorite food memories that you and I have shared was with... Our lovely wives at the time. It was my girlfriend, Claire. Um, but for my birthday, um, this was, this would have been winter of 2009 December. I think it was December 6th, 2009. I do, but my, my parents gave us money to go have dinner at chef Gary's restaurant.

And he, at the time was cooking at Marche in Burbank.

Ty Hoad: Yeah. A thousand oaks, Burbank, somewhere like that. Yeah.

Andrew Camp: Um, yeah. And, and I talked to him beforehand, you know, and he's like, yeah, come and we'll feed you. Um,

Ty Hoad: we had no idea what to expect. [00:45:00] No.

Andrew Camp: And I told them sort of what the money I had and food just kept coming that night.

Ty Hoad: And wine pairings kept coming. Oh my

Andrew Camp: goodness. Yeah. It was everything from cauliflower soup with truffles. Um, to vegetables. Chef Gary can make vegetables sing

Ty Hoad: I, I thought, I'm, I'm eating carrots and I think I'm eating steak. It's so flavorful and so rich and savory. Um, my wife, uh, the lovely Heather still talks about that white truffle risotto even today.

Andrew Camp: Oh, I do

too.

Ty Hoad: Her favorite food. Like, you could ask her what's the, what's the best thing you've ever eaten? She'll say that.

Andrew Camp: He gives us a plate of white truffle risotto and at this point I'm thinking. Did he misunderstand me that he thought that I had 200 per person to spend like [00:46:00] I'm sweating bullets Like I am it in grad school.

I am dirt poor You know like and I'm thinking oh, yeah, all right. All right. We're on a journey right now like right, you know

Ty Hoad: Enjoy the ride. We'll wash dishes later.

Andrew Camp: I'll figure

it out later, right? You know, and you know, Claire has somewhat of a similar story as Heather of like, she didn't grow up with this type of food.

And I didn't grow up with this type of food either. No. No, being in the culinary world, world cooking, like, you know, I'd had more experiences. And so Claire is just. She doesn't know what to do with herself and she's enjoying it. We're all enjoying it. It's, I think it's that moment where Claire realized that she could just bathe in chef Gary soups.

His soups for her are always, um, something she loves. Um, but yeah, food just kept coming and then it [00:47:00] was seafood and then it was pork and then it was state, I don't even remember.

Ty Hoad: Yeah, I, man, it's, it's all a blur from the amuse bouche and the little, uh, uh, quail egg foam thing. Yeah. I mean, it's like a blur from that to the sorbet.

I like, I remember something in between there. It was like, I don't know, there were cups, there were glasses, and there were, you know, just enough wine to, you know, to taste each and to experience the flavor of the something. And then, you know, I just remember him and I don't, I don't know if this was that night or if it was the next time we went back.

But I remember him poking out of the kitchen at one of our times with this big slab of meat going, Hey, I'm going to put this in the oven. I'm going to roast it for your

Andrew Camp: birthday.

Ty Hoad: Man. Yeah. Something

Andrew Camp: else. Right. But then all of a sudden, like, you know, so we're eating and I'm sweating bullets, but still enjoying trying to be present to all [00:48:00] the flavors. Right. Cause it's, it's a bite, you know, um, And then all of a sudden, like the check comes and it was for the exact amount. I had told him like tax tip, everything.

It was just, we're good.

You know,

Ty Hoad: it's just a piece of

paper with a number written

on it. I think,

Andrew Camp: yeah, like I think, and he figured out how to make sure his server got what his server needed that night, but it was just one of those beautiful gifts of hospitality that just, you

Ty Hoad: know, you know, I think about that night.

I think about what you just said. It was a gift of hospitality because.

The dollar figure is completely unbalanced, right? I mean, it's completely out of whack. Um, and I remember what I remember about him in that moment when we're talking about it and expressing our gratitude to him [00:49:00] was he said, it was such a pleasure to cook for you, Andrew. And he said, I love you. And I was just like, it was a, that, that whole meal for him was a labor of love.

It was this, it was, it was, it was his, it was his gift to you. Right. Right. Um, yeah. Oh, and I, I just think, yeah, so it, it absolutely was a gift of hospitality, but it was so much more. It's, it's a, it's a, it's a debt of love, right? It was a, it was a, a, a gift from the heart. the same way that, you know, my mom, um, you know, my mom makes things for me today.

Um, or, you know, when I make, when I make brownies for my daughter when she asks, or I make, you know, cookies on the cookie of The ninth, the ninth of the month is the cookiest in our house, um, so that no one has to ask if I'll [00:50:00] bake something in the month, we at least have one day that we know that I'll make something, um, and years ago when we were first here in Brazil, we decided it would be the ninth because it was the ninth on that day, um, but it regardless of the cost of whatever that recipe is, I'm going to make it, you know, um, even, even if we have to scrimp and save, even if we have to substitute things.

Um, I'm, I'm still going to make this thing because I know that that's the thing that you want. I know that that is going to hit you here. I know that it's not just going to fill your belly, but it's going to warm your heart. It's going to, um, bring a happiness to your soul. So I'm going to go out of my way to make that.

I think that's what Gary was doing. No, for sure.

I think that's what he does every day too, and it's why he's... Does he have one or two Michelin stars?

Andrew Camp: One, I think still.

Ty Hoad: Wow, that's one more than a [00:51:00] lot of people.

Andrew Camp: Exactly, no, that's a huge accomplishment. Yeah. No, and I need to get Chef Gary on here. Wow, that would be great. You talk about somebody that's influenced me, you know, like, yeah, he, he's taught me more about vegetables and simplicity.

That's actually, you know, the simplicity that he operates from is actually way more difficult than braising short ribs, you know, with 30 ingredients. Yeah. Just because there's no room to hide.

Ty Hoad: Because he

believes that, you know, celery has a beautiful, inherent flavor to itself. And that carrots have a beautiful, inherent flavor unto themselves, and that God made them the way that he did for a reason, and that they ought to be cooked that way.

Andrew Camp: Exactly. And treated with respect. You know. That's right.

Ty Hoad: And man, do I love that he does that. I do too. Yeah.

Andrew Camp: He, you know, he's famous for this fruit and veggie platter at his. little [00:52:00] counter where it's 20 different at least 20 different fruits and vegetables that are just Plated there's there's no coherence to the dish and yet there is coherence But it's 20 fruits and vegetables that are just expertly prepared so you can taste what actually Something should taste like And so it's just, yeah, there's something very beautiful about that dish that, yeah, every time I eat it, it's, it's lovely, you know, uh, yeah, it takes care.

Ty Hoad: So am I allowed to refill my drink?

Andrew Camp: You're allowed to do whatever you want, Ty, because we're almost done, you know, but you know, Ty's preparing one more drink before, oh, there you go.

Ty Hoad: Okay. [00:53:00]

Andrew Camp: So, but before we go, a few sort of, into some questions and maybe you've answered them, but. I think it would be fun just, you know, to see what people say about these three rapid fire questions.

Ty Hoad: Oh no.

Andrew Camp: Is, is there,

Ty Hoad: what is one food you refuse to eat?

Peas. That's not true. I, I just had this conversation with Heather this morning.

I was remembering the time that I was poor. And I, all I had, all, I mean, I had nothing left in my house. Nothing. I was on my own the first time. I was 22 years old and I still had a can of peas and I was so hungry I ate the peas and she said you don't like them because you didn't prepare them the right way and I'm telling her I didn't like them because I don't like them.

So, um, I'll eat peas if they're in like shepherd's pie or whatever, but I won't just eat peas unless they're fresh, super fresh and Chef Gary prepares them

Andrew Camp: for sure. [00:54:00] Absolutely. Yes, again. So what's the best thing you've ever eaten

then?

Ty Hoad: The

best thing I've ever eaten.

Yeah. Wagu beef. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. Has to be it. Okay. It was, it was it. It melted it. Yeah. How do you put meat in your mouth and it melts and it dissolves,

Andrew Camp: but still had chew. It wasn't like crock pot

meat.

Ty Hoad: No, no, no, no, no, no. But I mean it there. Uh, man. Yeah, that, yeah, that was, that has to be it.

Andrew Camp: Okay. And finally, there's a conversation amongst chefs about last meals.

Like if you knew you only had one last meal to enjoy. And it's morbid, I get it, but it also, I think, speaks to something. And there's actually a book that came out years ago about it by chefs. But Ty, if you had one last meal, what would it be?

Ty Hoad: Oh man, one last meal. [00:55:00] And, and I can, I can, I can pick and choose components from different places and different times.

It's a blank slate. Yeah, this is going to be overly simplistic, but this, I think speaks to how ordinary a person I am too. It would be, um, the Jack in the Box Ultimate Breakfast Sandwich.

Andrew Camp: And I thought we could be friends.

Ty Hoad: Uh, Jack in the Box Ultimate Breakfast Sandwich and Tater Tots from Sonic. Wow. Um, I don't, you and I have had many discussions about potatoes. Yes. And I love potatoes. And so, it could just as easily be a, you know, uh, any kind of burger and tater tots or whatever. Um, I think I've just, I've, I've [00:56:00] come so far in my food journey that I'm really Like, so, I'm so content with the simplest of flavors and, and I, I love the Jack in the Box Ultimate Breakfast Sandwich because it's cheesy and meaty and it's, it's an egg sandwich, which from my youth was kind of a staple because my mom, the first food my mom ever taught me how to cook was, was a scrambled egg.

And, um, so I'd have scrambled egg and toast. Um, and so that, so the Jack in the Box Ultimate Breakfast Sandwich is like a step up from a regular egg sandwich. Um, but tater tots, man, I don't know who thought it was a good idea to take baked potatoes and form them into a thing and then fry them up into a...

You know, a little nugget, but whoever decided to do that, thank

Andrew Camp: you. Yeah. There's a lot of tater tots in Flagstaff. They, especially at bars, you know, and you're like, this is [00:57:00] like one place has this like curried tater tots where it's just curry sauce on top of tater tots. What? Yeah. They also have, like, the biggest selection of whiskey.

Ty Hoad: Well, I think there is actually a marriage between the drinks that you serve and the varietal, uh, the varieties of potatoes.

Andrew Camp: Yes. Yeah. Ty, this has been a joy and a privilege. Um, thanks for joining me, um, and starting this journey. Um, if people want to get in touch with you, where, where could they find you?

Ty Hoad: Um,

they can find me online at e2ten.

org. That's e2ten. org. Um, and they can just send an email through the website.

Andrew Camp: Awesome. . Reach out to Ty. They're doing some amazing work in Brazil and Mozambique. And so if you're interested. , do reach out to them again. It's E210. org. , thanks for joining us on this first pilot episode of The [00:58:00] Biggest Table, , where we explore what it means to be transformed by God's love around the table and through food.

Have a great day, everybody. Bye.

Thanks again for listening. If you enjoyed the episode, please consider subscribing and reviewing the biggest table wherever you find your podcast. Until next time may you find something beautiful at the table whatever you are eating with whomever you are sharing it with ciao

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