The Biggest Table

Episode 23 (Dave & Jenn Collie)
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Andrew Camp: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Biggest Table. I'm your host, Andrew Camp, and in this podcast, we explore the table, food, eating, and hospitality as an arena for experiencing God's love and our love for one another. And today I'm thrilled to be joined by Dave and Jenn Collie.

Dave received his B. A. in Pastoral Ministry and Theology from Campbellsville University. His diverse experiences as a youth pastor, church planter, and missionary both overseas and stateside have provided countless opportunities to practice hospitality and cultivate relationships.

A graduate of Belmont University with a degree in mathematics, Jenn brings a spectrum of experience to the table with her work as a children's pastor, camp director, curriculum writer, and school teacher.

Because they have experienced the power of God's love through the practice of hospitality, Dave and Jenn are passionate about seeing this transformation spread through every neighborhood around the world. By helping others create safe and welcoming environments, they are empowering neighbors to grow stronger together.[00:01:00]

With their two children and family dog, adventure is a daily experience. When they're not teaching high school math, managing projects at a commercial construction firm, or leading workshops, they love backpacking, playing pickleball, and exploring new cities. They especially love chatting with their neighbors on Saturday mornings over a delicious latte at the free coffee shop they host out of their garage.

So thanks for joining me, Dave and Jenn. It's a pleasure to meet you and just to learn more about all that you are doing to help other people practice and experience hospitality in their neighborhoods.

Dave Collie: Yeah, thanks, Andrew. Uh, we just are honored to be your guest and love what you're talking about and just kind of your, your way of going about it.

We're, we're excited to be a part of this.

Andrew Camp: So let's start here. What led you, um, to as a couple and now as a family to embrace this hospitable way of life?

Jenn Collie: It's a great question. Dave and I were actually just talking about. Where did this begin? [00:02:00] We actually didn't meet each other until we were adults, but we both have had experiences as children in our own families of encountering people in, in different areas of life and what it means to welcome them.

And actually Dave was telling this great story the other day. You should share about what your mom had you guys do. I think you were like 12, maybe seventh grade. Is that right?

Dave Collie: You want me to tell it right now? Okay. Uh, yeah. So I was, you know, junior high kind of trying to figure out life and my mom thought it would be really important for us to, to hang out with people that are not like us.

And so we went to this local halfway house slash homeless shelters slash Um, mental institution and, uh, she had to run into and made some sort of relationship with the cook there named Murdoch. And he's like, you should just come and hang out and play cards and get to know people. And so every Thursday we would run down [00:03:00] there and hang out.

And at first I really thought it was just this craziest experience. Um, and I didn't know why my mom was having us sit with Kathy who didn't have any teeth and her hair was never done and Jerry who thought he was 007 and would talk to his watch and run across the street to 7 Eleven to do a mission and come back and tell us all about it and I just thought, what are we doing here?

And as a selfish person that was not comfortable and I, I didn't like discomfort, I didn't like being in a place where I felt, um, out of control. And I didn't necessarily because of that feel safe and I hated it at first. And the more we went, we began building relationships, uh, Murdoch would welcome us and, and be so happy that we were there.

Uh, Kathy and Jerry would remember us and they would sit down and we would play cards and we'd share a [00:04:00] meal. And through all of the different people that I met and through all of the different experiences of that over, I don't know how long, six, seven months, maybe longer, I felt safe. Uh, and it wasn't a change in the people, it wasn't a change in the environment, those things stayed the same.

What changed was I became connected. To another human, um, walking this life, trying to figure things out. And we started realizing that different age and different place in life and mental capacity or whatever that looked like, we, we shared a lot more than we didn't share in common and it really kind of just kind of split us apart.

Planted the seed, I think, for me, in my heart, and from being a missionary to church planter, like, all of those things come back to this little seed that has kind of grown into, like, we want people to feel safe, we don't necessarily have to give them the best [00:05:00] environment, we don't have to give the best of ourselves, even.

Uh, we can be not ready, we can be a mess ourselves, our hair doesn't have to be done, but we can still connect on a human level and learn from each other and love each other and contribute together. And that for me is kind of where this all stemmed from personally.

Um, I'm sure Jenn has stories as well of that, but it's this, this growth of learning that, you know what, we're all human.

And God loves us all the same. And when we can kind of start breaking down all of those environmental barriers or those fears or our own projections of what people are like, um, there's a richness in who people are and what we have to learn about ourselves and about God and our place. And it's just been a really cool journey for, for me personally, anyway.

Jenn Collie: Yeah, and I think we've, we've both had and, you know, there's stories just from my childhood of our family taking in, you know, exchange students or inviting people into our home. But, [00:06:00] um, a lot of people had built into us and had practiced around us and with us and brought us along. But I think, you know, as far as.

Our married life and our family with our kids, uh, we've lived in a lot of different places, um, in communities with different cultures, and often being the person who was the new family on the block or, you know, the new kid in school and really experiencing that place sometimes of, you know, Of loneliness or disconnectedness or feeling like everybody else knew people, but we didn't, um, and in some ways, just trying to learn, how do you begin?

How do you engage in conversation? And a lot of times that did happen over, you know, at a table or over a meal or, um, across the street in a conversation. And as we began to, in some ways to sort of practice this, because we needed it, we needed. connection with [00:07:00] other people. Um, we also began to receive hospitality in ways that were very transformational, but we began to see like, this is, this is something that's hitting cords in so many different realms of our family life, um, of our community.

And I think that's really kind of where some of what we were doing with hospitality began to take shape and helped us see that, that this is something that all of us. needed. Um, whether you were new to the community or you had been there for 50 years or your grandparents grew up in that town, hospitality was one of those rich practices that that really was a part of everybody's life.

Andrew Camp: No, and, um, you've, you both shared a lot that I think it's worth re unpacking. First with Dave and your idea that, you know, your experience of being uncomfortable at first as a, you know, middle school boy, who's, you [00:08:00] know, already uncomfortable. You know, you don't need to be, go to a halfway house as a middle school boy to feel uncomfortable, but the experience of keep going.

Um, and the consistency with which your mom helped you practice, you know, to feel comfortable, um, is so key because I think many times we think, well, if I don't feel comfortable, I'm not going to keep going. Or, you know, if it's not beautiful to start with, why keep going? Um, and so just that idea of the consistency I love.

And then Jenn, what you said about, you know, then your need for it, but then, you know, and so initiating it because you needed it and not waiting for other people to initiate. Um, but then the reciprocal nature of which you guys have experienced hospitality. Um, so there's so much richness there that I think hopefully the listeners are even just understanding that little part, you know, I think is, is the beginning of hospitality.

Jenn Collie: Yeah, I think, um, [00:09:00] that was something we found, too, when we started having conversations with people about hospitality. How do you practice it? Where does this come from? Was that there really are a lot of different understandings or even definitions of what we're talking about in our culture. You know, there's an entire hospitality industry.

Yep, with hotels and coffee shops that that wasn't really the nature of what we were talking about. And so we found it kind of helpful at some point to craft, uh, sort of a working definition of this is kind of what we're talking about when we say hospitality, um, And I read it aloud the other day. I thought, wow, this is really a mouthful, um, because it is, it's a deep and kind of rich practice and understanding.

And so, um, this is, this is where we, we got to, um, a few years ago, we said that hospitality is a posture of living in which one engages another for the purpose of drawing them out of isolation and loneliness. [00:10:00] And into a place of welcome and safety so that they feel connected to the world and know that they have something to offer it today.

And I think we were, we were trying to capture this sense of, um, a way of living among. Our, our people, the people around us, um, that there's a, a giving and a receiving, there's a contributing and also, you know, a, a benefiting from other people, um, and so we tried to distill it down into, you know, a few words, but like I said, it, it is a bit of a mouthful.

Andrew Camp: Yeah, no, in hospitality. Like you said, there are so many misconceptions of what hospitality looks like today, whether it is the hospitality industry or whether it's the perfect Martha Stewart table that needs to be set before you can have people over. Um, and so how, you know, um, as a family with two kids, you know, and you're both working, [00:11:00] you know, and so how do you practice hospitality?

Um, And not let the perfectionism or distorted ideas get in the way of what could be, instead, just let it be for what it is.

Dave Collie: For us, I think it is remembering that it's, it's not like a specific event or something you do once or twice, right? We talked about the consistency piece. I think it's figuring out, what are the little rhythms?

What are the, the, the things that we can do every day within the busyness to train our eyes and heart to see and hear and listen, um, to what's going on around us. Um, and because of that, as we start training that posture, then it kind of infiltrates. Everything we do. So there isn't like some specific thing of like, okay, now we're, we've kind of chiseled out in our, in our calendar Thursday night to be [00:12:00] hospitable or okay on Sunday morning when we walk our dog, it's going to be different than when we walk our dog on Wednesday night.

Or, uh, Saturday, uh, we, we want to make sure that we're instilling this, this posture of our heart and our eyes and our ears to be in tune with something that God is already doing. Like, we're not like drumming up some cool new thing or, uh, we're not making something happen spiritually that because of what we're doing.

Right. God's working. He's transcended beyond what we know and understand. And it's just a practice and a posture of learning to listen and see and join that. And because of that, it looks different at different times of day. Um, it doesn't mean that we do it when we're together only, or when we're apart.

Uh, you know, when I'm on a zoom meeting with a business partner, or she's at a You know school and [00:13:00] she's teaching ninth graders or tenth graders, you know the ins and outs of algebra Like there's still opportunities for us to to recognize what God's doing who's feeling lonely How am I feeling isolated?

Where do I need the connection who needs an encouraging word? What is God doing here? And how can we join and that's it just seems so big and hard and that's why it's something that There's it's a practice right? It's something that we are never going to master You It's never going to be something that we just say, okay, check that box off.

We're there. And that's been the most exciting part of it, right? There's this curiosity. Now there's this anticipatory heart of, okay, what does God have for this day? And when I engage with people, whether it's the lady at the checkout in the, in the grocery store where I'm trying to mail something at the post office, or I'm getting gas, or it's one of my neighbors, or it's my child or my wife, [00:14:00] when I engage them that day, I'm anticipating something new.

I mean, I'm anticipating not just the drudgery of life. I'm also like, this is an opportunity for me to connect and learn, to see, to understand God's heart, to have more empathy, um, to understand. Something in a deeper way about who I am or who God is or what he's doing in this place and that still Sometimes gets overwhelming when I talk about it

Jenn Collie: But like what you're saying though is really that I think the thing that like you were asking Andrew of you know How do you how do you move past this?

like I've got to have it all perfect or we need to have this certain block of time is that It's really more about, um, what we're focused on that, you know, if we're focused on the perfect meal and everything going right, um, then that's what it's going to be about. But if what we're focused on is the fact that our lives are connected to other people, and we need to open our eyes to [00:15:00] see that around us, um, and to recognize here is a moment.

That we could welcome someone else into life with us, or here's a moment that we could step into the life of someone else. Um, and kind of that idea of carrying welcome with you, carrying this sense of hospitality where you go. So it becomes more about, um. You know, what are we focused on and it allows for the opportunities, not only, um, allowing yourself to imagine them and create them, but also allowing yourself to see them when they're there and step into it.

Um, and we do have, I mean. You know, Dave was saying, you know, it's not just about carving out Thursday night dinner time. We do have some rhythms that, that sort of discipline our brain and our habits to think about other people regularly, because we need that shaping. Um, but I think what it does then is it allows it to grow into an everyday, every moment.

Experience, um, [00:16:00] because we would tend to probably fill up the hours with other things or with things that seem comfortable or are all about us. And even even the things that we love to do, um, that have opportunities. For hospitality, um, can become selfish, you know, like I've been at meals that are delicious and wonderful and great company, um, that really have no real connection of life.

And there's other meals where we've had peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and, you know, paper napkins. And there've been just the richest and deepest of. Um, relationship building. And so I think it's that focus of, you know, what are we looking for? Who is it that we are able to connect with? And those are places where hospitality can begin to be practiced and, and stepped into.

Dave Collie: Yeah, and I, I don't want us to, to run past the importance of, of beauty. And creating [00:17:00] places that are really cool and the table set super nice and the house is clean, um, those things aren't necessary, but they're it. They are a tool for us to honor those that are coming to prepare. And I, 1 of my sayings that my kids make fun of me about is, you know, preparation is key.

And I think when we are willing to take a little bit of time and prepare a space for someone. There is, there is an honor in that, and we have learned just as much about God's heart for people in the preparation and the cleanup as the actual event. And I don't want us to, you know, portray this idea of like, well, hospitality doesn't, you don't have to focus on those things.

It's not important, and it is important all at the same time, because I think what happens is we can either make that the idol or the focus. Like Jenn was saying, or we can make it again, still about considering the other person, like we're going to make this beautiful either so that I can [00:18:00] show you how cool I am and how good of a cook I am or how nice my table or organization is or how my flow of the meal works or how things fit together, or I can focus on making that beautiful so that when you come in, your heart is at ease.

And you feel important and you feel like they thought about me before I showed up and and there is it's just a focus thing, right? It's it's where's our heart in that. Are we trying to join God? And so I don't I don't want us to miscommunicate that those things aren't important, but they are. They can become very easily.

A piece that distracts us from what's important.

Andrew Camp: For sure. And again, you've said a lot that is worth unpacking about hospitality. I hope our listeners caught, you know, some of what you shared. Um, because from what I picked up, you know, one, um, it hospitality is a heart posture that we take with us, you know, [00:19:00] into the places God has called us into.

Um, you know, but it's also a practice that we need to train ourselves into. You know, it's not something that's just going to happen. Um, and then with hospitality, there's a place for the spontaneity of like, you know, the, the quick invite or like, oh, you need a meal, like, come on over, like, just show up. But then there was also the place for the beautiful, well thought out, prepared meal, you know, to honor, um, people.

You know, and so again, hospitality, it's so rich and there's, there's so much to it, you know, and I've always said, you know, as a, as a professional chef that like the food doesn't matter, but it does matter. And so I think that's what you were getting at to like the table. And the cleanliness and the preparedness matters, but it doesn't matter, you know, and, um, if it becomes the roadblock through which we don't, we stop practicing hospitality, we need to reevaluate.

Um, so yeah, no, I, again, listeners, I [00:20:00] hope you're, you're hearing what Dave and Jenn are saying and just what hospitality can be. Um, for all of us, um, in, in this season.

From that heart, you guys have started, um, an organization called hospitality matters. And you state that your mission is to provide high quality practical training that mobilizes communities to live out the everyday discipline of loving their neighbors. And so can you tell our listeners a little more about hospitality matters and, you know, where it came from and what your hope is and what you're seeing happen?

Jenn Collie: Yeah, you know, we didn't set out to start a nonprofit organization that was not like, you know, when I was five years old, but I dreamed of doing, um, it sort of grew out of what was happening, um, already, we, um, actually had a conversation. Oh, gosh, this is probably 10 years ago with some neighbors from various backgrounds.

We were living in a neighborhood at that time that had a lot of refugees. Um, [00:21:00] and we had experienced, um, their hospitality to us and we were just interested in understanding. Um, hospitality in different cultures and, um, what we could learn from each other and, you know, Eastern cultures versus, you know, the Western world and how that all works.

And, and so we were having these conversations and, and it, we kind of set up a formal one, one Saturday morning. We're like, let's all get together and let's kind of understand and learn what we can from these different places that we come from. Um, and we realized that there were, uh, we walked away with a lot more questions, um, but also a realization that other people had those.

And there was a lot of, I would like to do this, but I don't really know how and what would that look like in my space? Or what would that look like with my family? Or how could I do this? I don't really live in a neighborhood. So how can I do what you're talking about? And so we started doing, um, Just some kind of low key [00:22:00] workshops, I guess you might call it, we would, um, do kind of some discovery teaching where people could really kind of map out their area where they lived, or if it wasn't.

their actual living space, if it was where they worked, to begin to consider other people, to think about what is happening around me and how can I begin to welcome others into that? What does it look like to practice hospitality where I am? And, um, that grew into, we did a conference. We put on a conference in our town, um, with several churches involved and the, Recurring feedback that we had was, um, could you come do this where we are, or I think my business could really benefit from what you're talking about.

Um, and we didn't really have, um, really a format for how we, um, we're doing this. This was just. This was what we did because we loved it. And, you know, we were working other jobs and homeschooling our kids and doing all the things. Um, and so hospitality matters grew out of that of really a desire [00:23:00] to, um, to continue to learn, but also to disciple and empower other people in their places.

to practice hospitality. And so, um, we started this 501c3. Dave did all the research on how to make that happen and, um, uh, collected a board and, you know, to help us launch into that. And it has, it has been a collection of both, um, on site workshops where we do the teaching and training. We had the, you know, the COVID era where we did, um, webinars and, um, did some, some coaching with church planners from afar.

Um, we've also, um, had opportunities to kind of bring people to where we are and do sort of like a taste and see, have them involved in the ministries that we're doing. And so, um, it's really, um, An effort to, to train and equip, but also really challenge and inspire that. This is a practice you can do where you are, [00:24:00] um, and it can be transformative in your place.

And so, um, those, those have been some really great avenues. There's also kind of in that a realization that we would love more people to understand what this is and we can't do it alone. Be there for all the people. So Dave, you can tell them what happened, uh, this last year as a way of kind of putting this tool in the hands of other people.

Dave Collie: Yeah. And I think as we met with our board and our board has been, and when I say board, we're talking about a group of people, not a plank of wood somewhere in our garage. Um, and they have been, a lot of them have their own ministries and people that are, you know, loving people all over the country. The conversations really kind of came around with like, okay, what is this about?

What are we trying to do? What are we trying to help them understand? And so as we took this big mouthy wordy [00:25:00] definition, um, we kind of realized that what we're trying to help people do is consider others, cultivate good, whether beauty in their own space or cultivate good rhythms and habits. And then also to contribute, but also contribute together and really this breaking down of this idea that if we're only giving and not receiving, then we're probably not being hospitable.

Um, we're, we're doing something else. Um, and out of that came this understanding of like, well, how do we give people practical things? How do we invite? Well, how do we, how do we know how to, and when to be generous and when does it look like we shouldn't give, but we should receive and how do we break down this honor thing and how do we understand people's stories so that we can really love them where they are and not where we want them to be or who we want them to be.

Um, and. As we begin really digging into that, the board's like, [00:26:00] why don't we put together a resource that grabs and pulls people into a, into a room where they can have a, a lengthy conversation over amount of weeks that help them flesh these things out together in their own context, instead of us coming in and trying to imagine what their context would be in a couple hours, um, giving them the space and the, and the tools to, To discover that on their own and to answer questions and to introduce their own literal neighbors to each other.

And begin understanding, like, how do I know more about that story, or how do I share my, my piece of the story? So that encourages them and connects us deeper. And so, for the last year, we've been putting together this resource, and launch this month, which we're super excited about and we're excited to see what neighborhoods and communities do with it.

Um, but it's an 8 week study, really, that helps people dive into these [00:27:00] very specific, um. You know, questions of how do I honor someone when I don't accept their invitation to something? Or how do I invite well so that they feel honored even if they can't come? Um, how do we be generous and how do we also receive well?

What does that look like in our hearts? Why do we not want to receive a gift from someone? Is it our own ego? What's going on there? Uh, to really taking time to know people's story so that the houses we drive by are not kind of this virtual reality but they're actually real. And there's a curiosity there that you, as you drive out of your neighborhood or you go into work, that there is this, this curiosity about that and about who people are and what God's doing.

And so we're excited. We're excited about what this will look like. Um, we're, we're planning to try to do it with our, you know, crew or some people in our own town to just again, have this again, it's a [00:28:00] conversation. It's always something that every time we've led a workshop or we've done something, we've learned so much from the people around us.

And it's just been a joy for us and it's probably what keeps us, you know, keeps us going. It's not we have to go in and like divulge all this knowledge. It's really how do we sit with each other and learn how to do this caring for each other well.

Andrew Camp: Yeah. Yeah. And that resource, what's the name of the resource that was, you guys just published?

Jenn Collie: It's called Of Roots and Branches, A Field Guide for Practicing Hospitality. Um, it sounds a little enigmatic. Um, we were a little afraid at first that people were going to think this was a nature guide, so we wanted to make sure we included the practice of hospitality. But, um, The Roots and Branches is really kind of this beautiful picture of what it looks like to grow, um, in the practice of hospitality, that there's a real nature of embedding Um, with the roots and of, of, of receiving and being nurtured in [00:29:00] that.

Um, but there's this huge, um, result that comes from that of, of giving back and contributing in the place that you are. And so, you know, you think about the, the fruit that comes from a tree that is, is well rooted, um, and that really those. Two sections are happening, um, a lot of times simultaneously that you're growing deep and your, your branches are stretching wide.

And so that's really our, our prayer, um, as people step into the practice of hospitality, that they would experience what it's like to, um, to go deep and to cultivate relationships, um, to really understand who God is and who they are and who the people around them are. But then also for this, this fruit to come from that and for this contribution that in some ways kind of spirals into new growth and new planting. And so it was really our, you know, our, our prayer and our picture of, of how the practice works. Um, so of roots and branches of practice, the field guide for [00:30:00] practicing hospitality.

Andrew Camp: No, and it's available. I got my copy on Amazon.

Um, and so it's available on Amazon. Um, you know, and yeah, you know, small groups, you know, we're approaching fall season where, you know, a lot of churches are thinking about small groups and studies. And, um, and so if you're listening to this and wondering what your small group could do, I would highly recommend checking out this, um, this new resource by Dave and Jenn Collie.

Um, you know, I think it really, it does distill down and gives very practical, simple. tips. Um, and one thing, Jenn, I wanted to pick your brain on, um, because a lot of us think that hospitality is only for extroverts, but you write in the book, or you guys share that, you know, Dave is an extrovert and Jenn is an introvert.

Um, and so at, you know, I'm more of an introvert myself, but you know, as somebody who's listening, who might be more introverted or married to an extrovert, how do you two balance that in the practice of hospitality? [00:31:00] Um, To respect the other, but also in both ways. Um, but then also challenge each other.

Jenn Collie: That's, that's a great question. You know, it was funny. I was flipping through actually our book. Uh, there's a story I write about, um, Dave has a way of just bringing people home with him. Uh, and when we first got married, that was, um, quite a difficult thing to, to adjust to because when I'm also, I'm a planner and.

My brain's kind of analytical. And so, you know, I think through things and I think you mentioned earlier, you know, the ability to be spontaneous was probably not my strong point. Um, and so coupled with the, you know, introvert idea is this sense of, you know, wanting to be prepared, wanting to be ready for people and feeling like I couldn't, if I didn't know they were coming.

Um, and so that was one of the things as far as just balance, he definitely, um, they've. Help me grow in that [00:32:00] area. Um, but to also realize that. And this sounds sort of contradictory, but part of me being able to be spontaneous included being prepared for a lot of things. Um, I think of it a lot of times when we had preschoolers, um, I was a big proponent of the bag that I would carry all the time, anywhere we went.

Um, and you know, it had diapers and wipes and snacks and, you know, the occasional toy and, and all the things that you might need. Not knowing what might come up and I think there's kind of that sense of, you know, even when I go to the grocery store, I'm not exactly sure, um, who might come for dinner this week, but I'm probably going to just have some extra things just in case that, you know, maybe they won't go bad in 2 days.

You know, I could, I could do it on Friday or I could do it on Monday. Um, so there's kind of this sense of, um. Some preparation pieces that have helped and I think Dave has definitely been so generous [00:33:00] in, um, learning to communicate things, um, or to at least give the option of, hey, I talked to this guy and I might be, you know, inviting them over for this.

And so we've kind of grown in that that area too, but when it comes to just. People and being around people. Um, I think we recognize for both of us just kind of where we get those, those energizing moments. Um, and I'm probably a very extroverted introvert. I don't know. Sometimes I get lost in that whole world of it, but I do love being around people.

Um. I do think that there are some really unique places that that is a gift as far as the focus, because I think in a crowd of people, um, I tend to be the person who finds someone who just needs to talk one on one. And I think I probably excel in that. Sort of setting where I feel like Dave has this great ability to kind of pay attention to all the things that are [00:34:00] happening in the moment and I think those things have worked well for us as a team, um, to have.

You know, somebody who really is kind of having this pulse on all the things and all the people and pulling this person into the conversation and saying, oh, you know, you need to talk to this person over there. Um, and then for me to be able to kind of focus in and and be right present with someone, even if all the things are going on to say, no, I'm, I'm right here right now with you.

And I think those have been some really beautiful moments for us to learn from each other of how to do that. So I think I've grown in the, the. The many things, and I think he also, um, I think you would say, you know, you I feel like you're a pretty good focus or on on things as well. And so those have been growing places.

But I think what's cool about it is that we also see the strengths. In each other in that, um, because those are things that are needed in hospitality both ways. And so, you know, not letting our, [00:35:00] it's always not letting our giftedness or our weakness be an excuse for not practicing kind of like you said, you know, not letting the, the preparation of a good meal be an excuse for not doing something that.

I think even when something is hard, personality wise, um, the recognition that it's good and I can do this because we can have strength from the Lord to do the things that seem hard for us. Um, and I think there's some really amazing positive reinforcement in the practice of hospitality that when you do push through that difficult thing or that uncomfortable thing, the good that comes from it is, So worth it that you think the next time when it feels hard, you're like, remember what came from that and how good that was.

Okay. We can, we can do this again. And I think for me, that's often been it because there's lots of times where I'm like, I am just spent. Like I am, I am tired of [00:36:00] people and things and needs. And, um, and yet God gives what we need. And, um, we're able to, to continue on.

Dave Collie: Yeah, and I would add to that the reason why we continue to pursue this and to talk about it and be super excited about it and hopefully talk about it with this, this joy and expectancy is because I personally have been completely transformed because of this.

It forced, this practice forces me to do things with others and, and we are better, you know, I know a lot of people say like we're better together and, and I think there's this idea that we are on this earth to, to learn how to be in deeper and deeper communion with God. And allow him to transform our hearts and when we practice this together and not in silos, we have, we have [00:37:00] grown, I feel like we, we do have our gifting, right?

Like, I love big crowds and I want to do it big and I want as many people to come as possible and if I'm having fun, everyone should be having fun and that's needed. And, and also I've seen introverts in all of these different places own that and connect to people in a way that really I, I don't know how, but I have also learned how, right?

I, I have learned to slow down. I've learned to, to take a breath. And not just be so focused on the big to follow up with a conversation that I have. And, and, and I feel like we have together, you know, she's saying that she's an extroverted introvert. Like I feel like I'm an extroverted introvert, right?

Like it's gone the other way. Like I've, I've learned that there's some real powerful conversations when you sit down with [00:38:00] someone one on one and you really have a practice of learning how to listen to them. And my, my heart has been shaped in those moments as much as the big moments. Yeah. And I think that's the cool part about this is, as we practice, God has the ability to transform and grow us in the weaknesses.

Andrew Camp: Yeah.

Dave Collie: But I think the other thing that, that struck me when you were talking, we want to make sure that we always communicate that it isn't like we do something. And then God works, it's not like this, this thing of like, well, if I just do this, I'll be a better person or I'll do this and I'll be less isolated or I'll do this and I'll be a more connected to my community.

It's not about us and it's not about doing something perfect. It's allowing God. To lead us and us learning to be obedient in that and oftentimes the weakness [00:39:00] is the, the barriers or the excuses of like, well, I'm not an extrovert. So I'm not going to do that. Or I don't have enough money for that. Or I don't think I have time for that.

God does. And when we can obey him in that, when it feels uncomfortable. And when we allow him to, to lead us into places that we don't think we can handle as humans or as men or as women or as extroverts or introverts, you know, the Bible says that he is powerful and strong in our weakness. And I think oftentimes we, we hear people say, well, if I tried this and it didn't work.

And now I'm, I'm not really sure what I should think about God. And, and I want to make sure that we don't lose sight that we're simply leaning into the obedience factor and trying to do what God wants. And sometimes that's hard and sometimes that doesn't make sense. And sometimes we don't have enough money.

And there have been times when [00:40:00] God showed up in those moments. I think about, um, a big party that we, we did every Friday, every third Friday, um, in one of our neighborhoods that we were living in, we did this huge party. We usually had a theme and, you know, I went big and I went hard and it was fun. And we invited people and there was usually 50 That would show up at our house and it was this culture that everyone brought something we had a theme like we're doing chili night or we're doing tacos or people would bring stuff and Jenn made our, you know, seven bowl chili in a crock pot and made seven or eight, 12 muffins, you know, cornbread muffins, and we were ready for everyone to come and everyone came and no one brought anything and we thought.

Jenn Collie: This is not going to work. This is not going

Dave Collie: to work, but the cool thing is, is we invited and we said, we're not going to worry about that. We're going to be present with the people and we're just going to enjoy and [00:41:00] invite and we just won't eat anything. And everyone was fed and there was a bowls and seconds and that crock pot of 40 people there eating chili never ran out.

And those things can happen. Because we're obedient and we don't focus on, on those negative things. And I just want us to remember that hospitality isn't just a simple act of obedience and in that our hearts are transformed because we get to see the goodness and beauty of God at work in our place.

Andrew Camp: Yeah. And I love too, what you mentioned that, you know, it is this posture, you know, and it's about obedience and it's about letting God do what he wants to and not expecting, you know? Um, it's like with any other spiritual discipline, we put ourselves in a position to receive and to be open to God's working, not beholden to what God wants to do.

Um, and so as you've talked about hospitality, I've picked up that theme from you guys of that. This is [00:42:00] an act of obedience where we put ourselves and open ourselves and others, hopefully to, to receive God's love and to experience his hospitable love. But we can create the conditions, but we can't make it happen.

Um, you know, and I think that's so important because we can easily start practicing hospitality or do certain things. And if we don't see the results, we give up quickly, you know? Um, and so just to be aware of that facet of hospitality as well as so important.

Dave Collie: That's why we always tell people start small and be super consistent.

You know, we don't, we don't plant a big, huge plant. And just get fruit right away.

You know, it's, it's unseen, it's tiny. And we just have to water for sometimes weeks before we see anything. But if we're consistent about that, God is doing something scientific and miraculous under the ground with the sun and the air and the water that something comes from [00:43:00] it.

And I think that's the picture for us of this hospital is like, he's not asking us to do something huge. He's asking us to be right here and the next thing he asks us to do and how he asks us to love him and follow him and invite people and care for them. Do that and then do it again and do it again. And then God does something cool.

Um, Preston Patel or Preston Patel, um, he wrote our, um, our forward for this book, and it's just been an amazing, uh, mentor and friend for us, um, in this journey, he's published a couple of different books that are just fantastic. Um, and we were, we were talking to him one day and he goes, you know, we don't, we don't bring beauty into a place.

We come into a place and we, we are called to work so that when we leave Beauty is in our wake.

And I feel like we're called to just do the work and God will create what he wants from our faithfulness and our [00:44:00] obedience. And, and so if it doesn't feel like it works or it doesn't feel comfortable or like we tried it a couple of times and there doesn't seem anything happening there in that relationship, you know, be faithful.

If God continues to ask you to do it, do it.

Andrew Camp: Yeah.

Dave Collie: But it's not just like, Oh, well you just have to meet with that person 20 times and all of a sudden there's going to be a deep relationship. You can meet with them 50 and there's never a relationship, but it's not about choosing to do something. It's choosing to be obedient and listen to what God wants us to do.

Andrew Camp: So that brings me to this important question because, you know, we've talked a lot of theoretical and this heart of hospitality, but we're entering into fall season. Kids are getting ready to go back to school. Um, you know, Halloween, fall. Stuff is just around the corner. Like I know, and you've mentioned, and I love it that, you know, each area is different and so hospitality will look different for each person, but can you give us the listeners and some people, [00:45:00] some practical tips of like, if, if this has piqued their interest and they're like, okay, I want to take a step like where, where do you encourage people to start or what could they do, um, in this fall season to practice hospitality?

Jenn Collie: Yeah, and there's, you know, kind of depending on where you are in your practice of hospitality or your journey with that, um, one thing that really, no matter where you are, but a fabulous place to start is, is the practice of listening and being present in the places that you go. And, you know, I think about, like you said, even kids going back to school or.

You know, whether being nice enough that you could be outside, but not melt, um, that these are really amazing places to begin a practice of listening. Um, and a lot of times, you know, that might look like intentionally walking your neighborhood or, you know, if you don't live in a neighborhood. Pick a section of your town and walk through it with the purpose of, of seeing and hearing and feeling, um, the heart of that [00:46:00] place.

Um, it has a way of, of really directing our, um, our vision toward the needs that exist in a place, um, but also the places where we can contribute and what we could do to share our gifts. Um, a lot of times, you know, we, we take our dog on a walk and, um, it's a really incredible way for us to be present. Um, and also puts you in a place to encounter other people.

Um, and so that would kind of be a first off of making intentional practice. Of listening and being present where you are, um, we did our first, um, first season of our podcast, um, be the good in your hood. We, um, actually every episode did kind of a different tip of, like, even how you could do that. Um, I think one of them was, you know, just talking about, um, make an extra, you know, go the extra muffin.

Um, if you're, you know, if you're making muffins, which somehow muffins always seem to make 12. Which is an odd number for a family of four. I mean, I guess we could all eat three muffins, [00:47:00] me and my math skills. But a lot of times we always had like three or four muffins left over. And so we'd be like, what are we going to do with these muffins?

And so, you know, the tip was like, when you are baking intentionally make extra or use the extra and take it to somebody, um, take it to your neighbor. Um, and so our podcast kind of just broke down these little like Little things that when you recognize or you listen to, um, the place around you, what you could give back or what you could do in that spot.

Dave Collie: Yeah, I think that's the, the depth of this is you start to listen and you start doing those things. Um, a lot of people hear what we're talking about and be like, well, we don't have time to add that. To our schedule, and one of the things we always say is hospitality most likely is going to be the most powerful and the most doable within what you're already doing.

Um, and so I think in a lot of ways, you know, maybe you're doing a big Halloween party, then invite someone to that, or [00:48:00] maybe someone in your neighborhood does a really great job. Party already, or they have a really cool setup. Well, see if you can help them just join them. Don't, don't try to create something that's, that's just different or separate.

Um, you know, it really is just saying, okay, what am I doing? And can I invite people to do that with me and just come along with. Or is there a place where it's maybe a little bit awkward, but like, Hey, I would, I see that you kind of put up this huge thing and a lot of people come to your house every week or every year at Halloween, is there something that I could do that would help you in the midst of setting up or tearing down that would enhance that?

Or just let you know that the neighbors around you really appreciate. All the effort and the sacrifice that you put in again, it's, it's learning to, to kind of see and, you know, listening to what's around you, but then also inviting yourself into, or inviting someone to [00:49:00] do with you.

Jenn Collie: And I think, you know, there's a lot of creativity in that because I mean, like you said.

We're different people in different places. And so what you would invite somebody to do with you would maybe look completely different than what we would. Um, and also the idea that people actually will accept that invitation. And it sounds crazy. Like I invited my neighbor to go to the grocery store with me because I was going to the grocery store and she said, yes.

Like she was like, sure, that'd be fun. Um, and so we grocery shopped together. And so I think there's just like a wide open area of creativity to recognize that the things that you're doing in your life already, you could invite somebody else to do it with you and strangely enough, they will probably say yes.

Um, it might be the fifth person you ask, but somebody will probably join you in that. Um, and we have, you know, two, if there's things that you feel like, you know, you're already doing, um, just kind of the challenge of, is there something in your life that needs to shift to make room for [00:50:00] something? Um, because, you know, Dave talked about a lot of times it's things that we're already doing we can invite people into, but, um, there are places that, you know, I would just encourage people to, To take kind of an inventory of, you know, whether it's with your family or, you know, if you're single, just kind of looking at your schedule and saying, is there something that needs to, to shift or adjust so that I can have availability for other people, or I can have room to be generous, um, and welcoming.

And in some ways, just take that one step to say, what is the one thing that I could, could move or adjust to make that a possibility.

Andrew Camp: No, and I think the start of school provides that opportunity. We always think of New Year's resolutions, but maybe as a parent, you know, we think, I think more school year now, like January 1st is just a blur.

Um, but the school year we're setting schedules where, you know, kids are signing up for sports or doing sports, or if you're a college student, you're getting ready to go back to school or [00:51:00] whatever, wherever you are in the season. Like, I think this, The fall does provide an opportunity, like you said, Jenn, to, to adjust our schedule, to say, okay, what needs to, what can we say yes to, what do we need to say no to, um, in order to, To be more hospitable in the areas God has called us into

Dave Collie: in the, the idea of, of seasons and this whole roots and branches and that metaphor, there is a change and a shift in seasons are really important.

Right. We, I took a picture one time of, of the tree in the spring and a tree in the winter and. Said, you know, these are the same tree and they're both just as healthy.

It just depends on the season that they're in of what they're going to look like. And, and taking note of seasons, the fall is getting a little cooler.

Um, you know, the days are shorter. You know, you're entering winter, there's going to be some busyness and how do you, how do you change and how do you shift how you engage? [00:52:00] Um, and how do you plan? Um, I think it's a great opportunity for us to sit down and drink tea together or have a cup of coffee where makes more sense than in the summer sometimes and recognizing that and taking note of, of the season and considering what's going on around you, like you said, I think is really, really key. Um, one of the things that we've really learned is when people are, they don't feel rushed. There is stories that are told, but we also run into, well, I want to do this.

I think this is really exciting. I want to have my neighbors actually, as I was listening to this, I had three or four people that come to mind and I would love to have them over, but I just, I, I'm not good at inviting. I don't know how to put on a good party. Um, I don't cook well. I don't know what to do.

And so we actually, and this is again, I don't want this to feel like a plug, but you're asking for tangible things.

Andrew Camp: [00:53:00] Yeah.

Dave Collie: We have created, um, kind of a party package. Um, it's called the mug swap kit and it comes with a mug and it has, um, pre made invitations in it.

And all you have to do is fill out the date and the time and where, um, and you can just simply hand them to your neighbors or to coworkers.

And the idea and the premise is everyone's going to bring a mug from their cupboard and everyone has extra mugs. Um, you get them for Christmas, you get them at office parties and you don't know what to do with them. So they all end up at the thrift store. Um, and so we encourage people to just grab a mug that you don't want to keep and bring it with you.

And we have a bunch of questions and every 10 minutes or so we ask a question and like who's traveled outside the country in the last year. And if you've, if you identify with that, then you would just switch mugs with somebody else that identifies with that. And you kind of just, Have some desserts, or you have people bring [00:54:00] stuff.

Jenn Collie: You also swap your story while you're swapping your mug. You know, it's like, oh, you went out of the country? Where did you go? And then, you know, the, the stories evolve out of the, the swapping of the mugs.

Dave Collie: And we, we did this, um, with some friends 12 years ago. And unfortunately, the mug that we had was this beautiful tall red mug that I came away with that was one of my favorite mugs.

I took it to all the coffee shops. I had them fill it up. It was just a reminder of that moment and those stories that were told and it fell off the counter and broke the other day. And it was one of those things. It was just like, Oh, piece of my, like my existence, like my way. But, you know, it seems simple to just have people over for an hour or so to just share stories.

Have some, some brownies and swap mugs and it seems really weird, but there's some real power in just how we interacted with those neighbors after that hour of like, Oh, hey, Joe, how's it going? You know? And like, Hey, sorry, you [00:55:00] know, your cat died last year. Here's the record, you know, whatever the story comes out and, you know, hey, we're traveling.

You know, let's do this together or whatever that comes about. And so, you know, if you're talking about tangible things, you don't have to use our pre made thing. You could do that yourself, right? Like, it's not like something that we want you to just have to go out and, you know, buy this mug and get all this stuff.

But if you don't know how to do it and you feel intimidated by all of the prep and connection and designing something and coming up with questions, We have helped you kind of take all of those barriers excuses or whatever fears away and we've had churches actually a church in California thought that's Just such a great idea that they kind of kicked off all of their small groups this way And they had all of their small group.

They bought like 10 or 15 of these mugs up kits and each leader Told their their small group about it and they ended up inviting one each group Each person, sorry, um, from that group [00:56:00] invited somebody that they knew to come with them and they didn't do this big Bible study and they didn't have this big prayer time, but they connected to these people and they wrote us and said, what an impact.

Just that one little thing did with connecting people and getting them excited about where they lived And so tangible wise find a mug invite someone over do something like that It doesn't have to be that exactly but there are ways to connect simply in a season when you know You're not outside and we go from there.

Andrew Camp: No perfect and that mug kit would be available on your website hospitality matters dot org Awesome. Um, as we wrap up, there's a question I'd love to ask all of my guests. Um, and I'll ask the question and leave you guys to answer it how you wish. Um, but what's the story you want the church to tell?

Jenn Collie: What's the story we want the church to tell? Is that? Yep. That's right.

Andrew Camp: Yes.

Jenn Collie: You're really thinking [00:57:00] that one through.

Dave Collie: Do you have an answer? Do you have an answer?

Jenn Collie: Well, I think in light of, you know, just our conversation just now on hospitality. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think the thing that overwhelms me in this practice is how deeply and genuinely God has welcomed us. And, you know, I think just, you know, the name of your, your podcast of The Biggest Table, and just

this story of the God who welcomes us to his table to sit and enjoy and be nourished and included.

It's just this really, I think, overwhelming sense of what it means to really be alive. And I think, you know, that story of what God has done to connect himself to us, um, is really the story that I hope that [00:58:00] we're telling in, in the way that we welcome and the way that we love and the way that we care for people's needs.

Um, because that's really what has been done for us. And how could we not? Let other people share in that. There's room. There's, there's lots of room at the table.

Dave Collie: Yeah, I think I would add my own piece to that. I agree with that, but I think what that communicates and we want my, my prayer for the churches that we communicate in.

All of our different ways of communicating to the world that, that there is, um, purpose, there is a place for you, um, and that you are loved and you are seen and you're not alone. Like you feel like you are. Um, and I feel like our, our generation feels very lonely or isolated and in our heart, our heart and hope is that like we've experienced that, [00:59:00] that welcome that we, we could provide that for others.

Um, so that they could understand how good and great and wide and powerful and loving and kind and merciful, um, our God really is.

Andrew Camp: No, I love that. Um, thank you. Um, it's always cool to hear people's answers and to hear the, the passion and the stories. Um, so no, thank you for that. Um, and then some fun questions as we wrap up and, um, centered around food, since this is, you know, about the table.

Um, and so each of you can answer it. So what's one food you refuse to eat?

Dave Collie: I'll go. Um, I spent my high school years in Moscow, Russia, um, as a missionary with my family and, um, that culture is very welcoming and hospitable and they, Want to provide the very best, um, and, and they want to honor [01:00:00] you. And, um, one of the ways they did that was serving this, um, I don't even remember what it was called exactly, but, um, it had this kind of crust.

Kind of graham crack crust, but base and then it was kind of like this clear jello. Uh, that was not jello. Um, it was something else. Um, and in the middle of it was, um, an anchovy and this was like the thing, uh, that everyone wanted you to eat and, um, enjoy and be honored with. And, um, Yeah, I, I don't eat those anymore.

Uh, I forced a lot of those down over the three or four years I was there, uh, with a smile on my face and, um, I just. I love every moment of the connections and the things that it taught me to be in those spaces, but I do not want to eat that again. [01:01:00]

Andrew Camp: Fair enough. Yep.

Jenn Collie: Um, I can't say that I've eaten this, so I don't know if this counts, but I mean, I don't want to eat it.

So we were at a restaurant Not too long ago with some friends, and there was something on the menu, and you probably know what it's called, I don't even remember the name. I had to, I had to Google it. Um, and when I googled it, I realized this is one of those foods I would refuse to eat. Um, it's basically like raw ground beef.

Andrew Camp: It's like, okay, so it's like a tartar.

Jenn Collie: Yes. And I was like, that's one of those, I'm gonna draw the line. I am not going to do that. But apparently it's, you know, a very mm-Hmm. . Amazing thing that, you know, people fancy, fancy people eat it. And I guess I'm not one of those.

Andrew Camp: That's fair. No. Yeah. So then on the other side of the spectrum, what's one of the best things you've ever eaten?

Jenn Collie: So many things that are good to eat.

Dave Collie: That's a hard one.

Jenn Collie: It is. I do just, I'm really grateful. That, [01:02:00] um, that we were created with the sense of taste and smell,

I have this real, um, sense of just like grieving for people who have, you know, like had COVID or something and lost their ability to taste. I'm like, how is life even interesting now?

Like all these foods you have to eat, but like, you can't taste them. So I really do love, I love tastes, um, and probably I'm going to go with just the one that's like this. consistent, uh, accessible, warm homemade chocolate chip cookie is one of the best things.

Andrew Camp: Uh, that's chewy or crispy?

Jenn Collie: Um, I think I could go either way, but I think I like them best out of the oven.

So they're going to be soft. They could end up being crispy later, but right out of the oven.

Andrew Camp: For sure. Absolutely. What about you, Dave?

Dave Collie: True. That's a good [01:03:00] question. Um,

Jenn Collie: let me give you some suggestions. Try to cheesecake.

Dave Collie: I love flavor. And so probably some sort of, um, Latino mixed. seasoned smoked meat that I could put in a tortilla with, um, some other delicious veggies and things like that would be, I don't know if I could just name one thing, but I think that's the taste that I would want to just recreate all the time.

And I don't know how.

Andrew Camp: Awesome. And then finally, um, there's this discussion among chefs about last meals as if, as in, if you knew you only had one last meal to enjoy, what would be on your table? And so for Dave and Jenn Collie, what, if you only had one last meal to enjoy, what would be on that table?

Jenn Collie: Tri tip. [01:04:00]

Andrew Camp: That's a good one.

Jenn Collie: I'd go with the tri tip potatoes and salad, I think. Cheesecake for dessert would definitely be a bonus.

Andrew Camp: Gotcha. A New York style cheesecake?

Jenn Collie: Yes. Yes.

Dave Collie: With a personality that loves to start things and hates to finish them, um, it's a hard question for, for me to think about the last meal.

I think I would say that I want it. Definitely to have variety. I don't think I would want it to just be one thing. Um, just because, yeah, I just think the variety for me personally would just be the best. But at the end of the day, I was like, it could be Jerry just Cheerios. As long as people around me at the table with me were the right people.

You know, I wouldn't want to eat it alone.

Andrew Camp: Um,

Dave Collie: and so yeah, variety for sure, but [01:05:00] Wouldn't matter what i'm eating as my last meal as long as it's with with people

Andrew Camp: for sure. No, I love that Awesome. Well, david Jenn, this has been a privilege. I love your heart. I love the practical tips. You bring the posture of hospitality you invite us all into and so if people are Interested that we've mentioned it before can but can you remind people where they can find?

You Um, your work and how they might be able to access some of what you've, we've talked about today.

Dave Collie: Yeah, probably the best way to start is just hospitality matters dot org. Uh, it's got a lot of the information for everything else on it. Um, if you're into podcasts and you're, you're on one of the platforms, um, hashtag be the good in your hood.

Um, is our podcast where we talk with other people, uh, around the country and around the globe that are, um, practitioners of this and have a huge amount of insight and, and we've learned a ton from them. Um, that's been super fun to do. Um, and, um, yeah, we're on [01:06:00] social media, uh, Facebook or Instagram, um, at hospitality matters.

Number one, like don't put the hashtag number part, but just hospitality matters. One hospitality matters was already taken. So we had to do something, but we wanted the name in there. Uh, so there's that there's also on our website, uh, we do send out, um, it's not really a newsletter, um, but there is kind of a, a thing we send out with announcements or different workshops that are happening or.

Kind of maybe we run across something or we have an experience and we want to write an article about it and just kind of continue to have the conversation about what hospitality looks like. Um, people can subscribe to that, but yeah, we would, we would love to come to your church. We'd love to just coach anybody that's listening.

If you have questions, feel free to reach out. We, we are just here to empower and equip and, uh, and to champion people connecting around the world.

Andrew Camp: Awesome. Yeah. No, and I do recommend, um, their small group study of roots and branches. [01:07:00] Um, the I've read parts of it and really find it accessible. And, um, I think it would be a great small group study for people, um, this fall.

So thank you, Dave and Jenn. Um, and if you've enjoyed this episode, do please, um, consider subscribing, leaving a review or sharing it with others. Thanks for joining us on this episode of the biggest table, where we explore what it means to be transformed by God's love around the table and through food.

Until next time, bye.