The Biggest Table

The Biggest Table - Episode 04 (Monica Romig-Green)
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Andrew Camp: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to another episode of The Biggest Table. I'm your host, Andrew Camp, and the idea behind this podcast is to explore the table, food, eating, and hospitality as an arena for experiencing God's love and our love for one another. And today I'm thrilled to welcome my good friend, Monica Romig Green as my guest.

And just a little bit about Monica. She was born and raised in Southern California and fell in love with Canada after living in Toronto in the early 2010s. She was ordained as a transitional deacon in June 2023, and is deeply honored to be serving as assistant curate at Christ Church Cathedral in Hamilton, Ontario.

Before following a call to ordain ministry, Monica had three previous careers as a professional actor, a theater administrator, and a spiritual director. All these experiences have shaped the way Monica approaches ministry, focusing on communication, community care, and spiritual growth. She holds degrees from Stanford University, Talbot School of Theology, and Trinity College Faculty of Divinity, [00:01:00] and has written and taught on prayer, improvisation, and spiritual formation.

Monica is also passionate about theater and movies, and delights in discussing the latest in pop culture. She loves living in Hamilton with her brilliant husband, Matthew, a scholar and writer on Christian spirituality and neuropsychology. So welcome, Monica.

Monica Romig-Green: Thank you so much. Yeah, I wrote that. I think he's brilliant, my husband.

Andrew Camp: He is brilliant. No, he's very brilliant. And I've gotten to know Matthew as well, and they're just a delightful couple. Thank you. I met Monica when I was pursuing my master's degree. We're both around the Institute for Spiritual Formation at Talbot School of Theology. Um, and Monica shares a love for food, and so as I was exploring my own journey and falling in love with food and discerning my call, Monica, Was a key friend in all of my journeys.

And so we've kept up Maybe not as well as I would have liked but life has taken us on different journeys But we're here [00:02:00] now to talk about food and the table. So Monica, what's been your journey with food and Hospitality or the table

Monica Romig-Green: my journey with food and hospitality in the table. Well, um, I have to say I was fortunate to be raised by parents for whom the table was very important.

So, um, we were a dinner at 5. 30 everyone around the table kind of family growing up. Um, and that's because my dad got off work at 5 and could make it home by for dinner at 5. 30. And of course, as a very young child, my job was to set the table. Right? That's the thing that you give the kids to do to set the table.

But what was great about, um, my family dinners was that it was a time of conversation for all of us. This wasn't a, only the adults talk. We went around the table, shared about our days, we laughed, [00:03:00] that we had, you know, running jokes. Um, like it was, it was a time when the family would be together and we, It was probably one of the most bonding experiences we had as a family was was nightly coming together at table.

Now, the other meals, not so important, right? Breakfast was, um, on the go, lunch was often on the go, right? We were all separate for lunch, but dinner was the time. And I fondly remember the table. And then, and then my parents also, um. My mother in particular had a, had a deep love for celebration and parties and things like that.

So, whenever there was any reason to celebrate something, so we got a good grade or somebody's birthday or whatever the family was, family was in town, we would go out to dinner. Now, um. No fun. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It was really, it was fun. We would, we would go out to dinner and whoever we were celebrating got to pick the restaurant.

[00:04:00] So, um, if I was 10 and, and I got to pick my restaurant, you know, I would, I would pick it. Now as a kid, I didn't have very expansive taste, but I did like Italian food. And uh, so we went to a lot of really good Italian restaurants and I even remember us, uh, Yeah. Making friends with a family from the theater that I was working in that had an Italian restaurant where, uh, I must have been, I don't know, I was nine or ten and we went to their restaurant and they made, uh, uh, fettuccine Alfredo table side, which I'd never had that happen where they roll up a cart and, and of course it was, you know, fresh and delicious.

And I thought I was in heaven. So, so this idea of celebration of being together, of, of, uh, Of it being a communal experience while eating, uh, is a deep, long thing in my life. Oh, and then the big, big ones were, of course, you know, the big, big holidays, the Thanksgivings, the Christmases. But I, I [00:05:00] have, I have less, um, sort of fond memories of those because of the stress that I felt went into preparing those.

Like, it was, there was a lot of stress to make sure that, and, and my mother really wanted to make sure we had. the right kind of family celebration. Like she was going for Norman Rockwell. And that, um, that's not always the case when you bring a bunch of different people together, but also just know, but I did find, like, I didn't find the prep of those very fun, but the eating of the meal was fun.

And, um, we, I was one of, once we got the extended family around, we were one of those families where whoever shouts loudest gets the attention. It's a cacophonous kind of table, which my poor husband when he joined, he's, he was raised in a very quiet family where everyone waits their turn to speak. So he just gets lost if you're not going to like, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, over here.

Me, me, me. I've got a funny thing to say. Right. [00:06:00] So, so, um, so no. So that's, that's how I was raised, um, to enjoy going out to, um, Um, Um, to have fun around the table, to really enjoy one another and enjoy good food. Um, I also like, I remember when I was a teenager, I liked kind of cool restaurant ideas. I remember this.

There was a restaurant in Fullerton, California, no longer there, called Panache. And it, it's a bank now, um, and it was, this has been the late 80s. So they did the most amazing things. They had a lot of neon, like, um, actual neon. Um, I remember they had, like, pink neon clouds. On the ceiling of the white ceiling and what they, and they were an Italian restaurant and what they had going for them was stations.

So you could go in order to go with these different stations. They had, like, the bakery station and the pasta [00:07:00] station, all that, or you could sit at the table and it was all white subway tile. I just thought it was the coolest thing in the world. I was into Miami vice at the time. So. Which is the coolest thing in the world.

But I remember that specifically going, Oh, this is, there's also something about the ambiance of a space that is, that is. That makes a difference to the occasion that you're going to yeah Yeah, and so then uh, if you don't mind me me continuing my monologue So, um, so yeah, so I was raised to enjoy things and my family also really loved going to see Plays and musicals and my brother was a percussionist.

So we went out to a lot of classical music concerts and I was a performer, so, so there was a lot of like, there was a lot of going out, there was always the meal attached to the going out with the show, right? You have the, you have the pre show meal and then the, the show and [00:08:00] that's, that's still something I hold dear.

So a good prefix menu at a restaurant that'll get, that knows how to get you out, have a good anticipatory time, but get you out on time for a show, I bless them. I'm always looking for those. But, but really everything, uh, got kicked up a notch for me, um, when I befriended a man named Mike Thompson. Mike Thompson at the time was the controller for Center Theater Group, a big theater company in Los Angeles that I was, I had been working at Center Theater Group on and off for a decade at that point.

And when I met Mike, I was part time. I was in seminary. At the Institute for Spiritual Formation and, uh, my job was to, uh, manage and, uh, manage the finances and pay the, pay the bills for a project. They were doing, uh, they were transitioning a theater from an old movie theater into a [00:09:00] live stage. They were going to call it, it was the Culver Theater.

They were turning it into the Kirk Douglas Theater and, One of my jobs for that was to, uh, we had grant money for that from the feds and the state, and my job was to get the money, which is trickier than one would think. So, I worked two days a week making phone calls. And, um, that's when I got to know Mike, because I would run upstairs and I'd say, Mike, this is where we are with the money coming in.

And I think he really appreciated having somebody try and bring the money in. And plus, I was paying bills that my boss at the time was. An absolute genius, but he could not pay a bill to save his life. Um, so there was a stack of bills and the controller really liked the fact that I was trying to catch up on all of that.

So this is how I met Mike and Andrew, you probably know I'm a pretty personable person. So when I. When I go into an office space, I am not just, uh, saying [00:10:00] hi, like, I'm not just doing business. I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask some questions, I'm gonna get to know you. So I started getting to know Mike, which was a pure joy, and, uh, we just had these lovely conversations before I'd leave his office and I'd go back to bugging the government for our money.

And then one day, I guess we'd known each other about a year. Um, one day, uh, and Mike, by the way, I had come to learn in this time, uh, loved going out more than I did. He had a single script subscription to the opera, to the ballet, to the symphony, to the center theater group, to Organ concerts, like, he would be out, I don't know, five, six nights a week.

Wow. Yeah. I've never met anybody who, who takes in culture the way that Mike does, and he goes to museums, and right? He's, loves culture. So, um. [00:11:00] But what I didn't realize was, besides loving culture and loving to travel and what have you, that he also loved food. And, um, he said to me one day, he goes, you know, Monica, you've been such a good friend, I'd like to thank you.

I'd like to take you to the Philharmonic. So I have my subscription, my single subscription ticket for all these different days, pick a day that I already have a ticket and I will buy you a ticket. And I was like, how generous, like, I'd never actually seen the Philharmonic, though it was one of our shared theaters, you know, the Walt Disney Concert Hall.

Right. Yeah. Which is, have you been there to the Walt Disney Concert Hall, Andrew?

Andrew Camp: Many times during seminary on the student rush tickets. It's the most beautiful building.

Monica Romig-Green: It's stunning, right? It's absolutely stunning. Frank Gehry designed, um, that weird, you know, outside that's all metal, but then in the inside it's all wood and stuff.

Like, it's beautiful. So

Andrew Camp: it's big, but yet intimate.

Monica Romig-Green: Yeah, exactly. [00:12:00] And the sound is incredible. The acoustics are unreal. So, um, I'd never seen anything there. So this is going to be my first time. And what I chose to, chose as my concert was, um, uh, Stravinsky's Rite of Spring. And this is when Esa Pekka Salonen was the conductor.

And I had no idea that The L. A. Phil was, like, world renowned for that piece. Like, this is one of their famous pieces under Esa Pekka. And also, the front part of, before they got to that, the front part was Emmanuel Axe, the pianist. And I heard some of his work. You know, I'm not a huge classical musical follower, but I'm like, I've heard of him.

He's, I think he's a cool guy. So that's the one that I pick. And Mike says, uh, so we're going to have dinner beforehand. I'd like you to meet me for dinner. And we're going to meet at this, um, At this restaurant called, [00:13:00] oh, oh no, what's it called?

Andrew Camp: Was it the one at the Disney Concert Hall at the time?

Monica Romig-Green: Yeah, it's the one at this Disney Concert Hall at the time.

It was Patina, right?

Patina, thank you. So, I can, I can talk right away. So, so, he says, I want to take you out for dinner and, and before the show and I want to take you to, we'll, we'll meet at Patina. It's in the Disney Concert Hall. It's no longer there. No. But it was the flagship restaurant of the Patina Group.

And, um. So, I'll take you out to dinner. And I was like, okay. So, uh, I, I get myself, you know, nicely dressed because I'm going and I, I buy a plant because I want to thank him and I, and I go to meet him. Actually, I meet him at the office because we just have to walk down the street. But I'm late because of traffic, of course, LA traffic.

So, he's a little, he's a little, um, uh, you know, hassle, but he's like, come on, there's still time to make our reservation. I'm like, okay, we, we hustle down the street. Like, I even remember what I was wearing. Can you believe this? Like, I remember what [00:14:00] I was wearing. I remember the skirt and the sweater I was wearing.

And we, we get, walk into Patina and, okay, this was next. I'd never, I had never been at a restaurant like this. This was, this was high end cuisine. And, uh, Mike says, okay, we don't have time for the tasting menu. I don't even know what that is, but it's like, we don't have time for the tasting menu. He's like, uh, but I'd recommend this appetizer, like, like pick an appetizer.

I'm like, oh, that sounds interesting. I don't know what it is. I'll, I'll eat that. And, and I, I don't even remember. I don't, I remember the appetizer had like apples and It was like a crudité. I don't remember, like it had apples and raw fish and like it was delicious. I don't honestly remember what the main was, but I'm sure it blew my mind.

I just, right? Yeah. Right. So, so we're sitting at this, we're sitting here and we're, and I'm having this meal with him and we've got wine and it's like, he's like, no, it's all on me. I'm looking at these prices going, I would, what? Like this is dinner. He's [00:15:00] like, don't worry about it. And um, He's like, it's fine.

I'm like, okay. And I know he gets a discount because of being in the same theater complex. So that calms me down a little bit, but we have the, the, we have the app, we have the wine, we have the bread or what have you that they bring. We have, I have a main, he has a main, and then we're a little tight on time.

I remember this, but he's like, we need to do the cheese cart. We need to do the cheese. And that's when we roll over and we meet Mike, who was the, yeah. Maitre de fromage, right? Like, he was the cheese guy who, not my, it was Michael's cheese shop or Andrew's cheese shop. It was Andrew, Mike's friend, Andrew, Andrew, Andrew from Andrew's, and eventually Mike, like, gave money for Andrew's cheese shop.

So Andrew comes over and, and the wait staff is joking with us beforehand. Oh, you're going to want to see Andrew, you know, he'll tell you the name of the cow that your cheese came from. I'm like, what is going on? Biggest [00:16:00] cheese nerd I've ever met in my life. And I remember what he gave us that night. He's like, this is water buffalo, um, cheese.

Um, like a water buffalo, uh, marscapone made from water buffalos here in Southern California. There's a guy with his farm, like, I was like, okay, like, and he puts together this cheese plate. And then I remember, I think that was the first time that he turned to Mike and says, and would you like some of the illegal cheeses that I have?

I was like, there are legal cheeses. So, uh, so he kind of sneaks an illegal cheese into, uh, I guess it has to do with pasteurization in the state of California.

Andrew Camp: No, it's USDA. It's the U. S.

Monica Romig-Green: Oh, it's USDA? Yeah. Oh, really? Oh, what's that illegal? Oh, I had no idea. So, no, Andrew never gave us illegal cheese, if anyone's listening, um, so we had this incredible And I remember he taught us how to eat it, like he taught me how to eat it.

He's like, you start with the mild cheese and you go [00:17:00] to the heavier cheese. And we ended with some incredible blue, I don't remember which blue, but it was some incredible blue cheese. And it had, and he was like, and this is a house made, you know, fig jam with that. And so this, this, so I remember we were eating this and the Mike looks at his watch and he's Concert is starting.

We got to go. And so we're like, up with the cheese and we pop up on our feet. He gets the billies and even the staff. They know this because of where they are. They're like, you guys got to go. Here's the bill. We'll get you out the door. We get out the door. We run to the theater. Turns out Mike had gotten me a seat like right next to him, which is incredible because his is a I think the people next to him who normally have that seat were gone, so I got to sit next to him.

And immediately, like, the concert starts, like, we're there, we're, like, we sit down and the concert starts, and Immanuel Ack starts playing, and he's the most generous, he's the most generous person, [00:18:00] like, you could just tell that he's, he's being hospitable with the orchestra, and there's this flow back and forth, and it's this beautiful music, it's this incredible piece.

And then intermission comes before the Rite of Spring. And Mike has access to the Founder's Room and has already asked me ahead of time what I want prepared for my dessert in the Founder's Room at intermission, to which I ask for the creme brulee and this incredible lavender tea. And I love lavender in food, and so long as it's not overpowering, and it's this, so this lavender tea and this creme brulee, we sit down to have this, you know, I don't know, 15 minutes.

intermission thing in this room. I've never been in this secret room, the founder's room, and um, everything's in front of me. I take a, I think I took a sip of the tea, and I think I took a bite of the creme brulee, and I look at Mike, because it's the first time since Rush, Rush, Rush, Rush, we've stopped. I look up at him, and I burst into tears.

I, [00:19:00] I just, it's uncontrollable sobbing, like I just, I'm like crying, and he's gone, and through my sobbing, I say, It's all so beautiful, like, I, I, I can't believe I'm having this experience with this food and with this music and with this generosity. I'm getting choked up now thinking about it because Mike turns with tears in his eyes to me and he, he leans forward, puts his hand on my, on my, on my knee and says, Monica, I, I, uh, I don't do this for everyone.

You've just been such a good friend and I want you to. recognize that, um, I just want you to know how much I appreciate you. And I was like, oh my goodness. Well, Mike, this is, I'll never, like, this is a night for the ages. Like, I've never had food like this. I've never had wine like that. I've never had music like this.

It was just a whole package and, and such generosity from such a kind [00:20:00] person. And then we go back in and it's, uh, the Rite of Spring, which is this, you know, silly piece of music.

Andrew Camp: It's probably similar to your family's table. The cacophony.

Monica Romig-Green: Well, well said. Yeah. It's like nuts and insane and I absolutely loved it and we get done with the evening and I just thank Mike again so profusely and again he says, well, I, that's, I just wanted to thank you and I really appreciate, you know, your friendship.

And I think that's it. I think, oh, I've had this experience, that's it. Well, no, because Mike loves meals like this. He's so funny because I've seen him, I, I remember when we were working together, his lunches were like these little frozen Michelina, you know, horrible little things. But he eats that for lunch so he can save his money so he can go to these fine meals.[00:21:00]

And next thing I know, I'm getting a phone call from Mike saying, Hey, there's a new restaurant. Would you, would you join me? And I'm like, what? He's like, yeah, come with me. I'd love to, I'd love to take you out. It's not going to be the whole concert and everything, but you know, there's, there's a restaurant on Melrose.

There's, there's one of my favorite restaurants called Providence. There's like, he hears about these chefs, you know, there's this guy, Jose Andres, who's just started a thing called the bazaar. Like, like, and he's, I'm his date. Like, um, for a while there he was also taking a friend called Margaret, uh, Margaret ended up sort of falling away.

So then it was just the two of us, Mike and I, uh, going out for meals. And suddenly I'm, I'm thrust into the world of fine, and it's not just fine dining. It's, it's, Mike is not interested in the hoopla of the, we're doing an expensive meal. Mike is interested in the, in, in the artistry of it all. [00:22:00] So, He's enjoying the places that is like, we've, we're taking things that the, the molecular gastronomy edge, right?

That's the Jose Andres thing where you're like, what, what is this? It's a ball of something, you know? Yeah. And, um. And, uh, or, and Michael Voltaggio. We, we ended up going to see Michael Voltaggio before he won Top Chef. He was in Pasadena at the dining room at the Langham. And, uh, and his stuff was highly inventive.

We really enjoyed that. And we got to go back into the kitchen and meet him. And I found out he was a Christian and like, it was really great. Right? So, yeah. I, I, I, every single meal I had with Mike, I, I, and I still do this to this day, I think this is the last one. Right. This is, this, I, I cannot get used to this.

This is, this is, this is such a, a gift. Every meal with him. is gift, is pure gift. I will not [00:23:00] expect it. And yet his generosity continues. And whenever we're together in the same city, which is now rarer and rarer, but when we're in the same city, Mike is like, let's go to a meal. You know, we go have these incredible meals.

And Mike was instrumental in me marrying my husband actually. Well, at least starting to date him.

I didn't know that.

Mike. Yeah. Mike was the first person to say, why aren't you dating that guy? We were at a meal and I think it was at patina actually. And, uh, And, um, I was telling him about my friend, Matthew, and what Matthew had gotten me for my birthday.

He'd done a very typical, clever Matthew thing. He'd, um, taken, and it's actually kind of what his business is now, right? Like, he'd taken, he'd taken labels and changed the labels on things. So, so he'd made bonbons that were mon mons, right? Like, stuff like that. And, um, I was telling Mike about this and Mike says, why don't you date him?[00:24:00]

And I remember saying to Mike, well, he's a really, Matthew's a really tremendous guy, but he's not ready yet. Someday some woman is going to be really blessed by him, but he's just not, he's just not ready yet. And so that would have been September. And I think that's why Mike took me out was for my birthday.

And then, um, Matthew and I started dating in November. So it was, it was pretty close, but he got that in my mind, like me, well, maybe I, you know, so, uh, so what was funny is when we started dating, I remember Mike, Mike saying to me, Well, I'll let Matthew come once and we'll see, we'll see, you know, we'll see if he um, you know, but don't, don't get used to Matthew.

Well, now Matthew and Mike love each other and like they've had meals without me, so. And, I remember that Mike was, he enjoyed, you guys had a meal together, [00:25:00] right? Yeah,

Andrew Camp: or we went to Pallet once, because I think Matthew got sick, or you got sick, or

Monica Romig-Green: I got sick. You got sick. Because they, they were going to go see a show, they were, was that, were they going to Pallet before they were seeing Sweeney Todd?

I don't remember, but Right.

Andrew Camp: But yeah, no, I enjoyed a couple meals with Mike and you guys. I think once we did go see Sweeney Todd, and we went to an Asian restaurant afterwards. Yeah. Yeah.

Monica Romig-Green: Yeah, that was me. I was sick for Sweeney Todd. I'm still mad about it, but

Andrew Camp: I do remember going to Pallet with Mike and I don't remember if it was you.

I thought you were there. I was there. I

Monica Romig-Green: was there for Pallet. Yeah.

Andrew Camp: Yeah, I was there. And that was my second trip. Yeah,

Monica Romig-Green: that was before you started working there, which is

Andrew Camp: incredible. Crazy. Yes. Yeah. So no, I would hear a lot about Monica's extravagant dinners with Mike during seminary and jealousy often arose.

Monica Romig-Green: I remember we had duck confit Oh, the Riettes. The Riettes. Those were good. Yeah. Those were [00:26:00] amazing. Right. Yes. I don't remember every meal that I've had, but I do, uh, so as a theater person, I've kept all the programs from, from the shows that I've seen. And as a, Uh, once I started doing this with Mike, I started asking for menus and I write on the menus.

I write the date and you know, they're not precious things there, uh, meaning I, I don't mind writing on them and stuff, but I love having them as a reminder. I'll pull it out and we take pictures where those obnoxious people to take pictures of the food before. Um, but it's mostly so that we can match it up with the menu, right?

So that I can go to the menu and be like, Oh, right. That was the, that was the. Uh, roasted foie gras with, um, with, uh, vanilla encrusted pineapple that was roasted. Now, I'm not a big, if I'm going to do foie gras, it's got to be warm like that. Matthew and Mike prefer it cold. Let me tell you, you've never, [00:27:00] you never lived until you've had pineapple encrusted, just, they just took literally, um, uh, vanilla.

from the pod and scraped it across the top of the pineapples spheres and grilled them. Oh, so good. So good. So good.

Andrew Camp: So you've had these two very different experiences with food, it seems, you know, you've had your family experience, which is what we generally think about with food. Although then we also have these extravagant dinners. Um, what, yes,

Monica Romig-Green: yes, I just want to, I want to say yes and, because I'm a yes and kind of gal.

Okay. Fair enough. I think one of the reasons why Mike likes having me as a dinner guest is because of what I learned at my family's table, which is that it's a, the feast is a shared experience of [00:28:00] community. Right. And so We're not, we're in, we're relishing in the food, but as we're relishing in one another and the two things sort of play off of one another, and I am like, uh, we're not fussy when we eat, uh, tablecloths get spilled on, like it's, it's, it's classic that I spill on the tablecloth whenever we have these meals.

Oh, also, because Mike and Matthew and I, we, if we're doing a taste, well, if we're doing a tasting menu, we do a tasting menu. But if we're doing a la carte, we move the plates around the table so that everybody gets to taste everything. This is a communal fun, it's a feast. Right? Like, and so that kind of family, tell the funny story, laugh and smack one another on the back, that's happening at these meals in these very high end restaurants.

And I think the wait staff really likes that because [00:29:00] Mike also treats the waitstaff like human beings, like he gets to know them, they get to know him, like they love him, wherever he goes. Right. Um, he'll take, he'll find out that a waitstaff person is, is interested in a particular show, and he'll, he'll invite them with him, like there's no, There's no hierarchy when it comes to Mike.

It's all about people enjoying a beautiful experience. So they do meld a bit. I think because I have that like, no, no, I, I bring, and I think that's why Mike likes it. Like I'll, I'll express my appreciation for a dish. I'm like, I'm the person going, Oh my gosh, that's incredible. And that heightens the whole experience I think for everybody.

Andrew Camp: No. Yeah. And you're not, you and Mike were never in it just for the experience of food, but the relationship became way more important than the food per se.

Monica Romig-Green: [00:30:00] Yes. And, I mean, the food is Yes. The food is

Andrew Camp: Right. But, but you guys would have been just as comfortable and had just as gregarious of an experience around mac and cheese.

Monica Romig-Green: And we have. We literally have. So my, my 40th birthday was before we left for Toronto, and I do love mac and cheese, and so I asked everyone to either bring mac and cheese or a side dish that would go with mac and cheese to my 40th birthday, and we had 21 different kinds of mac and cheese there, and they were all different.

They were all different, only one, and one person did do craft, but like they were all different, and everybody had a hoot, and Mike came to that party, and we did have a good time. And also, when I left Center Theater Group, our lunch was In N Out, In N Out burger, and then for dessert, we had Fossilman's ice cream.

Okay. Right? So, Do you know Fossilman's in [00:31:00] Alhambra? No,

Andrew Camp: I'm not. I don't think I've been to Fossilman's.

Monica Romig-Green: Fossilman's has been there for a long, long, long time. They do excellent ice cream. And, uh, it's an old, old ice cream parlor that, that is family owned. And, and then because of the growing Asian American community, they, they moved into taro ice cream and macapuno ice cream, which is, which is a kind of coconut, like it's raw, young coconut.

Um, anyway, so, so, So yeah, no, it doesn't matter. We've taken Mike to burger joints. We've taken because sometimes we want to reciprocate to Mike and we can't reciprocate on his level. So we find the best food that we can and the smallest kind of place and we'll, we'll do that for him. And yeah, it's, it's a feast.

Andrew Camp: So then how has all of this food and conniv conniviality Conviviality? Conviviality, that's the word I'm looking for. Um, how has that then informed your faith and how you [00:32:00] experience Jesus?

Monica Romig-Green: That's such a good question because they totally relate, and I wish more people understood this, right? Um, so probably my favorite chapter of scripture is Isaiah 55.

And it starts with hum. Come to the waters, come, buy money, uh, buy milk and buy wine without money and without price. Listen to me and you'll eat the richest of food. And I know it's a metaphor, but metaphors only work with the substance, right? That's the power of the metaphor. So the richest of meals that I have with Mike, they are a picture of God's.

generosity, God's excellence, God's artistry. It's an art. This is, this is edible art. Like, I [00:33:00] never thought I'd get into fancy food, but I'm into art, right? I'm into particularly the performing arts. I'm into, um, theater and music and improv and movies and, and Food is art and, and to watch somebody take the Imago Dei and take the good gifts that God has given us and transform them into something that is transcendent.

Is that not sacramental? Right? Is that not the essence of sacrament? Um. Jesus had a last supper, like that was very important for him to eat with his disciples. That's where he gave us the sacrament of the Eucharist, right? And he didn't just say, let's pretend this is my body and, and, you know, like, this is my body, this is my blood, this bread and this wine, like, I want you to consume these things because they mean [00:34:00] something very deep.

They are transcendent. Having this experience with food helps you have an experience with me. And then you get to Revelation and it's the marriage supper of the lamb. And there's all these ideas that there's going to be a big wedding party. And I don't know if you've ever, I've never been to a wedding without food.

Like there's always, it's, it's about the party. It's about, it's about the supper. It's about enjoying, it's about feasting together. You know, I've been out with some people to fancy restaurants who don't know how to feast. They kind of eat the food. That's not feasting. And, and, and I, Matthew and I also, we went, we took a vacation one winter when we were up in Toronto.

And Matthew's like, I can't take the snow anymore. We have to go somewhere warm. And we ended up in Bermuda. And while we were in Bermuda, we, and on vacation, we thought we're going to give ourselves a nice meal. And we looked around and there was some golf resort that [00:35:00] had really good food. had high ratings.

And so we go to this golf resort and everyone around us had more money than we had because they were all there at the resort playing golf. And, and you could tell they were just eating the food and they weren't paying attention to the food. And Matthew and I were eating the food and noticing the complexity and, and we had a question.

We're like, so you said that this is cheese. Is the cheese in this? I can't remember what it was. We, we had guessed. He's like, is that a Gouda? Is that like, we asked the waitstaff and the waiter, the waiter was like, I don't know. Let me go ask the chef. Was delighted. Someone was paying attention to the food.

They ran back, came back and said, the chef said, it is Gouda. Like you guys have great palates, like, and we had a conversation and, and suddenly there was this liveliness to the whole experience. So it isn't just for the people at table, right? It's for the people like you, Andrew, who, [00:36:00] who, who give the gift, right?

To have someone recognize the gift and receive it and relish it, that's, to me, that's loving your neighbor as yourself. Right. It's

Andrew Camp: pulling more people in, you know.

Monica Romig-Green: Yeah. It's the body each contributing their part. Right. And saying, Oh my gosh, I am not a nose, but that is in the most incredible. Like, look what you did.

You smelled a thing. And back, back to Andrew, the cheese guy was the most incredible palette I've ever heard. Like, like, like I relish his ability to match a wine with a cheese, not knowing anything about the wine. He tastes the wine. He picks a cheese that's wrapped in volcanic ash and finds out that the wine was grown in volcanic soil.

Like, that's holy to me. I don't know. That's just incredible, right? Right. It's the best of humanity.

Andrew Camp: It is the best of humanity. So then how, [00:37:00] how do we invite people to then participate? Maybe, you know, because few, few people will have experiences at. The best restaurants in L. A. Probably, you know, right. You

Monica Romig-Green: know, everyone could eat at Providence.

I wish they all could.

Andrew Camp: I've never eaten at Providence, you know, uh, but so, so the invitation still has to be there. Right. But without the experience necessarily of, of the best restaurants. And so , how does this play out then in normal everyday life?

Monica Romig-Green: It plays out, I think, in love and care and paying attention to love and care, right?

Because it doesn't, right, it's, it's the difference between, oh, like I, I want to go look at a Rembrandt. Right? That is an [00:38:00] experience, but that doesn't mean that I won't also appreciate when a friend makes a beautiful drawing, like it's not going to be Rembrandt level, but I, but I'm going to not just say, Oh, that's cute.

I'm going to pay attention to that. And I'm going to recognize it as the gift that it is. So, so anybody who makes a meal for someone else. Um, if it is done with love, right, that's I think the key and you'll hear people talk about that. They'll say, some people who don't go to the fancy restaurants don't know anything about that, but they'll say, you know what, my mother or my grandmother made an XYZ and it was made with love.

Right. Um, you know, one of the best hamburgers I've ever had in my life. Well, it was partly because my mom was trying to keep us like, like at the time fat was bad and she used to actually get the leanest of ground beef and she used to put it on a rack and broil it and so all the fat would drip out of it.[00:39:00]

And we had these little hockey pucks of, of meat and this is what I thought homemade hamburgers were. But my grandmother took like the full, you know, ground chuck or whatever it was and she like fried it in a pan and then took the buns and fried, like toasted the buns in the pan in the grease and then melted the cheese on top.

Like it was so It was so decadent, right? And made with love, made for her granddaughter and her grandson. Um, to pay attention to those offerings of love and to receive them as that. Look, we, look, here's, here's the other end of this. The church that I'm at right now, for, um, two days a week, uh, for two hours, Each of those days, they decided they could do a thing called Cathedral Cafe.

We are a downtown parish, meaning we are amongst a bunch [00:40:00] of cool restaurants and things, but it also means we're right in the heart of the situation with, with homelessness and precarious housed people, right? And drug addiction and mental illness and all of that. This cafe opens its doors. Anyone can come in and there's coffee and tea and cookies and I'm gonna tell you right now.

There's a couple that makes cookies for this. They are some of the best cookies I have ever had. They're tremendous and they're made with love and they're offered to this population. But what? What's really key about it is that there are volunteers and staff who sit down and have coffee and tea with the people who come.

It's not about serving. It's about community. It's about being with.

Andrew Camp: I was just thinking that word, with,

Monica Romig-Green: it's about being with, but it's about, it's about the [00:41:00] equalizing of food. It's about, it's about, Enjoy. And by the way, we just got a grant from the city. We're now doing it nine to four, Monday through Friday.

Wow. Yeah. But with some professionals to help us, like, you know, like people who know about food insecurity and, and, uh, housing and things like that. Um, but we still need volunteers. And the main job of the volunteer is to serve. But to also sit down and have a conversation. Um, so this can be done on multiple levels.

These are people without anything, or with very little, and they, they love having a place to sit and be welcomed. And also to, here's another key thing, and I love this. This is, this is, I'm excited about this for the missional movement, and like new expressions and fresh expressions of church. Um, there's this, there's this wonderful idea going around saying we have to be careful when we're [00:42:00] the only ones controlling the hospitality because then we set the agenda.

And this is how we get into, uh, I'm sorry, colonialism. It's dangerous. And what a lovely concept of is receiving someone else's hospitality is an essential form of ministry. To let yourself be brought into someone else's home, to eat their food, to, to understand their culture, like to appreciate it. All of this is, I learn these things by relishing, you know, what's another one of my favorites?

I love some of the, I really am a dessert person. Like this, this particular melon dessert that I had, or the, the sunchoke dessert, you know?

Andrew Camp: You weren't a big chocolate dessert fan, were you?

Monica Romig-Green: Oh, no, I love the chocolate. Matthew doesn't. Okay, I couldn't read. Mike doesn't. Mike doesn't. Matthew doesn't. They don't particularly care for the dark chocolate stuff, but [00:43:00] I'll, so I always have to succumb.

I, I sacrificially agree to the tropical desserts of the, that. Um, Mike likes or the more caramel vanilla desserts that Matthew likes. So on my own time and, and Mike knows this. So for my birthday, he, every year now when we're here in Canada, he sends me a box of very fine chocolates from a place called Soma up here in Toronto that they, they make their chocolate on site and it's fabulous.

So, um, yeah. No, I think,

I think there's, there is beauty everywhere. I think that, I think that there can be incredible beauty, like I said, there can be incredible beauty found in, you know, 21 different people bringing different mac and cheeses, right? Like it's, it's, it's the way of inviting people. Uh, into the [00:44:00] experience of it and helping people stop and pay attention and relish gratitude as a part of it.

Uh, but being open to receiving the love and the gift that's there, because what, what really is a sensitive palate? It's somebody who's tried a lot of things and thought about it, right, and, and received as a, a, a, a, a really sensitive palate is someone who is trying to open up their receiver as wide as possible.

Mm

Andrew Camp: hmm. And to wait and see what happens. Yes. And I feel like that. Have you read any of Andrew Root's books? He's talked about ministry in the secular age. Anyway.

Monica Romig-Green: Um. I think, I, I haven't. He's been recommended to me, but I haven't yet.

Andrew Camp: Yeah. A lot of his key things is he's rail, not railing, but almost railing against this performance based Christianity of like, we got to do more, we got to do more.

Whereas the invitation is to wait. [00:45:00] Wait and see what God has.

Monica Romig-Green: Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Andrew Camp: And as I've read his work, I've always thought about the table, because that's where my mind goes. Everything is read through the lens of the table for me. But I'm wondering

Monica Romig-Green: So where does Tell me about waiting in the table then, Andrew.

Andrew Camp: I wonder, as we invite people to sit, or as people invite us to sit, it's what you were talking about, where hospitality can be used sometimes as a control aspect. Where we set the agenda, or we have people into our homes, As good believers, quote unquote, right, you know, to minister to our neighbors, whereas it's still on my space, on my agenda, whereas going into the spaces where God might be inviting us and God might be working like what your church is doing of just, we have these people, how do we minister?

How do we wait with them? Yes. And so, so it's just, it's sitting there with open hands as a guest, thinking, okay, how do we then [00:46:00] listen and wait and see what God wants to do? Amen. You know, cause even with your relationship with Mike, it's just, it's a very unlikely source. of God's goodness to you.

Monica Romig-Green: I mean, I thought, like, I was so surpris I mean, Mike, he's a lovely Christian man, so that's Right.

But, uh, like, I didn't, I didn't know. He blew my categories, is what he did. He blew open my categories for what generosity could be, what it could look like, what, um, What food could look like. It was a whole art form. I just had an experience before and and honest. Okay, you have to know this. I was afraid of the kitchen.

I think I told you this, right? I don't remember. Okay, so I got by with, thank God for Trader [00:47:00] Joe's, right? Like, I got by with, you know, their frozen meals and stuff. I had very few things that I knew how to cook. Well, I felt I did not. I was afraid of the kitchen. I, I, I could bake. I've always been able to bake, but it was like making a meal.

I, I never really learned how to do that. And the timing scared me. And I didn't like, I wasn't, I wasn't skilled at that. And, um, so then. Matthew, when we got married, he cooked. He, he was the one that made the meals. And then, when we moved to Toronto and he was doing his PhD work, I thought, okay, from everything I've heard, he's going to be crazy busy.

I'm going to have to be the one that cooks. And I, I had tried to delve into the cooking world a few times. I wore myself out on one dish and then was like, I can't, I don't know how to do it. Like, I don't know how to do this. So I had all these cookbooks that I would rarely, I just didn't know how to cook on a regular [00:48:00] basis.

And, um, so we get to Toronto and, uh, the way that we shipped our books was through media mail to another, to a UPS store in Niagara Falls, New York. And then we'd go down across the border and bring our books back. It was just the cheapest way for sending our books. But the. Store would only take like four boxes of books at a time.

And so we had like 12 boxes of books. So we had three different runs. We had to go get our books and we went and got the first round of books. And for some reason I had put the cookbooks in like the last box to come. Oh wow. And here we are in Toronto and I'm having in a, and there's sort of. Different price structures on things, like in California, like tortillas and chicken and cheese were sort of what we would eat, and the chicken up here is more expensive.

I think it's because they care for their birds better, honestly, but the chicken was more expensive. We were, we were near a Chinese supermarket, um, [00:49:00] and that was our closest supermarket. And, um, I, I just didn't, it wasn't, I didn't know how to compute these things and I don't have my cookbooks and I'm feeling like I need to be the one that cooks now.

Well, thank God I had a few, um, uh, a few magazines of, uh, Real Simple. Okay. And they had interesting food that was easy, like it felt like entry level food. Right. And I started making Real Simple recipes and, uh, for a year. I cooked dinner every night and I did not repeat except for twice the recipes so that I would learn how to cook.

And the reason why I'm sharing this with you is the story of hospitality that was necessary for this to happen.

When I would freak out and start to cry in the kitchen because I felt like I [00:50:00] didn't know what I was doing, or if I made a meal that didn't turn out right, I had the most hospitable husband. He was like the picture of grace. He just said, okay, so that didn't work. We'll try it again next time. Right. Like, so he didn't, he wasn't overly, like, That was like, like, oh, that's okay, da da da, right?

Like, he had this, it's very Jesus like, like, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna lie to you, this, this tasted terrible. Right. Um, so you've learned. Yeah. And I'm, I'm not mad at you and you're, we're all okay. Without his, without that, that was the, the person receiving what I was doing, I would never have learned how to cook.

I wouldn't, it would never have happened. As much as I love food, it still was like things for people who are talented like Andrew Camp, not for people like me. [00:51:00] And so I'm not afraid of the kitchen. I can cook. I'm not very fast. My knife skills aren't, still aren't that great, but, um, I, uh, But I like to cook now and I, I, I, I, and we know what kind of recipes we like, right?

We like not quite bon appétit, a little more than real simple, you know, not too hard, but something kind of fun and inventive. And uh, we do that for each other. Matthew and I do that for each other. And it's fun to go to work and have people go, what are you guys, what are you eating?

Andrew Camp: Right. Yes. It is. People always said that to me when I would bring lunch and I'm like, well, it's.

It's not that hard. You just sort of do it. Like, come on.

Monica Romig-Green: Although Matthew, based on your inspiration from years ago, Andrew, Matthew tried to make gnocchi by hand. Okay. And he's like, I'm never going to do that again because it didn't work out right. Yeah,

Andrew Camp: no. There are some things that are labor intensive and if they don't turn out right, it's, you feel like you just wasted [00:52:00] five hours of your life.

Monica Romig-Green: Yeah, that one was, that was for him. We ate them. We ate them. They just were not, not up to, up to his standards and so, anyway, that's, that's how I think it is. I think, I think Jesus, there's a lot about food in the Bible. Jesus fed people. Right. Yes.

Andrew Camp: Even post resurrection. Like, let's remember that, too.

Monica Romig-Green: Yes.

Grilling fish for hungry fishermen on the side, like, like, like, and he ate it, too. Right. That's, that's my, that's one of my favorite verses of the whole Bible. Jesus resurrected body is eating fish. We get to eat. Yes. You

Andrew Camp: know? Right. Exactly.

Monica Romig-Green: That's what I'm looking forward to. A lot of good food. Right. Well, once you realize how

it's fun. Yeah. Can we talk about that part of this? No, it The table is fun! It's a place where it should be [00:53:00] fun.

Andrew Camp: And not just the table, the whole preparation of food, too. The rubbing of shoulders. Yes! Being in the kitchen together and whatever you're drinking, whatever you're doing, just being together.

Monica Romig-Green: Yes.

Yes. Yes. And I, I want to remind people that we have a God who is fun. Right. Yes. That's what I really appreciate The Chosen for that. I have to say that's one of the things I appreciate about The Chosen is there's a lot of humor in it. And I think, thank you. Yeah. Like, thank you. Yes, Jesus was a man of sorrows.

Yes, he faced the cross. Yes, all of, there's a lot of really, and I, you know, I'm, I'm, Jesus wept. I'm with you. And that's important. Jesus also, you know, what did he do? Just put his hands on those children? Or do you think they had a little good time there? Right? I mean.

Andrew Camp: Yeah. Sitting around the campfire with his disciples.

Like there had to be some [00:54:00] banter back and forth.

Monica Romig-Green: To be, had to be. And how many times when he says, Oh, you have a little faith, is he rolling his eyes with, uh, you guys. Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew Camp: Right. No, and it should be a place of fun and enjoyment and acceptance. And yet also at the same time. And, you know, this has not been my experience.

And this is where I, people have challenged me at times is that there is the darker side of food too. Yes. And so how to counterbalance that of eating disorders or places where food has been used not as a place of acceptance or. You know, because sin entered the world through food, through a bite.

Monica Romig-Green: That's a great point.

Right. And well, the, the, my friends who have struggled with eating disorders, one of the things they learn is that food, having food be fun is. Yeah. It's part of it, right? Right. Yeah. Like trusting their own, uh, trusting that, that this is, this is, that there's, there's a goodness about food, right? [00:55:00] Right.

Rather than having to be controlled by it or what have you. I mean, this is part of the problem, right? Is, well, wasn't it Michael Pollan who said, like, his things were like, eat food, like one of the, one of our, uh, another dark side of food is a lot of the food that people are eating isn't food. No. Right. It isn't food.

I remember the first time we had pakora. Have you ever had pakora? No. It's, uh, it's, we had it at a Hakka restaurant, a Chinese Hakka restaurant, which is, uh, like near Manchuria. It has Indian influences, pakoras, you can also have an Indian food. It's, they have fish pakora. It's a kind of a spice mix thing and it's the way they deep fry a thing.

It comes out bright red. Wow. And I swear to you, it's what Doritos is trying to be, like, like, I'm like, Oh, if you can have food that tastes like fast food, like maybe we would stop eating the junk food, right? Like the junk food. Yeah. But, [00:56:00] um, also let's talk about the other dark side of food, like, you know, industrial farms and you know, antibiotics

Andrew Camp: and the depletion of all

Monica Romig-Green: of that.

Yeah. Degradation. Yes. All of that. And, and Matthew and I, we eat a lot of, people are almost shocked to hear we're, we're practically vegetarian unintentionally because we didn't have a lot of money. You know, everybody going to, how many times do we need to go to grad school? I think in our marriage we've been more in grad, we literally have been more in grad school than we haven't been in our marriage, in our 16 years of marriage.

Um, um, but when you're in grad school and you're, you don't have a lot of money, you come to find out quickly that a pound of beans will get you a lot further than a pound of meat. Yep. And there's delicious vegetarian food out there. Right. Absolutely delicious. I made, um, I also get this. Andrew, because [00:57:00] I, I lean for the more interesting, you know, recipes and stuff in my book and I'll present them to people and we'll get, I'll either get, Ooh, or I'll get, Ooh, like, until you have people try it.

Right. So we just had a soup day at the, at the off at the diocesan offices and I brought. Uh, roasted butternut squash, curried butternut squash soup with pear. Hmm.

Andrew Camp: That sounds delightful.

Monica Romig-Green: It was so good and so simple. Right. But people were like, I don't know, anybody gonna like your soup? You know, the comments that I got afterwards, like, Monica, your soup is really, really good.

Like, yeah. My husband says I traffic in things that people are afraid of until they try it. Right. Improv. Fancy food. Spiritual directions. I

Andrew Camp: love that, that phrase, I traffic in the things that they're scared to try. And I'm like, that's the spiritual [00:58:00] life. Like the invitation of a, of a pastor, of a, a priest, you know, is, is to traffic in the things that make people slightly uncomfortable, but that invites something more, you know, like, Um, that invite, uh, an encounter with transcendence or resonance or whatever that phrase you want to use is.

That connect. Yeah. Connect them not only with God, but with each other. We got it, you know, the horizontal and the vertical.

Monica Romig-Green: And isn't that the sweet spot? Isn't that worship? How is that not worship? Right? Like, when we are fully open to loving God and fully open to loving others and in actively experiencing both of them simultaneously, it's, it's, it's, I think that's the, that is a human being being fully, being fully alive, right?

Whether it's through food or music or, or, you know, or worship or dance or, yeah. Right it's all together and and and that's [00:59:00] why I, but I really do think table is is so essential. And we're losing it, right? We're losing this concept of table. I have a very large dining table, uh, for the space that we're in.

We're in a condo and, um, I got it when we were living in, we were renting a space in Texas. It was half of a house that had a dining room and then I moved it into a house that had a dining room and I thought we were only going to go on the upswing from here. But you know, you follow Jesus and you find out that's not the case.

And so now we're back in a, we're in a condo, a three bedroom condo, but it has a big open space. But the movers, it was the last thing they moved in. Cause they were afraid they couldn't get it in the door. Um, but it's an important piece, it's an important, I want to maintain this table as much as possible.

Yeah. Because what have we been doing now that I'm in, in this, this, working for this church? Well we're doing, Matthew and I are doing marriage prep for a young couple. Oh, fine. [01:00:00] Part of what we're doing is they come for a meal. We start with a meal and then we, and then we go into the material. And it's, I think, I think we wouldn't have gotten as far in the marriage prep if we hadn't started with the meal.

Right. And they're not adventurous food eaters. So, we're, we're, we're being sensitive to what it is they might want to eat, um, but that's tricky. Yeah. Because we found the young man doesn't eat a lot of vegetables. So it's, it's like, okay, so how do we, how do we, how do we, and, and isn't this like you said, sort of the pastoral key, right?

How do I meet them where they are, but, but open up the door a little bit more. Yeah. Right? And so we had a, I had a simple, this is a real simple recipe from the magazine. Uh, I think it was, uh, a friend, Jenny Wally introduced me to it. It's, [01:01:00] it's called, uh, it's like beef cabbage skillet. Okay. Um, It's beef, but it's got like cumin and, and, uh, cinnamon and so you, you do the beef.

We actually use pork for it, some sort of ground meat. And then it gets seasoned up and then you throw in, um, cabbage and you get the cabbage kind of wilty, like strips of cabbage. And then you, you throw in a little bit, the recipe calls for raisins, but Matthew doesn't like raisins in his food. So we do, uh, um, dried apricot.

Oh, nice. We serve it over rice, and they ate it up, but we think that was a stretch for them, right? Just a little bit. Yeah. Just a little bit. And so you can do that with food, if you think. That's, that's a kind of hospitality, right? Right. Yeah.

Andrew Camp: No, it's what we do with our girls, you know, like as parents of young girls, it's involving them in the practice of preparing.

All of a sudden, when we sit down, they're saying, Ooh, this tastes good [01:02:00] because they helped chop or they helped cook or they did something. Yes. Yeah. So yeah, it's not just with others, you know, how you involve your own family in doing it together. Well

Monica Romig-Green: isn't that then another picture of ministry, right?

Right. Like, like this constant, I've got to serve, I've got to be the, the white savior kind of thing for those of us that are white, right? Like, like no, what does it mean to have people involved in their own ministry, right? Like that's just It's honoring, it's honoring for people to be humans and treated like humans in their capacity.

I just think it's beautiful. Yeah. That's beautiful. Thank you for that, Andrew. I picked up the thing today.

Andrew Camp: Like, well, no, and as, as you're talking about your ministry with these, um, homeless and economic, um, hardship people, like as you're looking for more volunteers, as people are healed, how do you invite them into the process of serving and giving them, which we do.

[01:03:00] Yeah, no, I'm sure. Yeah.

Monica Romig-Green: That's awesome. Um, we've had, we've had people who are, have, uh, have been guests, then become volunteers. Right. Um, yeah, no, that's, that's already been happening. And one of the, one of the gentlemen, yeah, it's, it's lovely. It's, it's just a lovely thing. We'll see how it goes now that we're open so many hours.

Right. Um, particularly in the Canadian winter. And I know I, for those Canadians that are listening, I know I'm in, I'm in Southern Ontario. I don't know what a Canadian winter actually is, but it's more than, it's more than, uh, I'm used to from Southern California. I'll just say that.

Andrew Camp: Well, I think we could talk for many hours, but I, you know, this has been a delight.

We could, but I'm worried people might stop listening.

Monica Romig-Green: I understand. Feel

Andrew Camp: free to edit. No, no, no, I don't think, no, this has been pure gold and just a delight to catch up. But just some fun as we end the podcast, I'd like to end with some fun questions and [01:04:00] be curious. What's one food you refuse to eat?

Monica Romig-Green: Pumpkin pie.

Andrew Camp: Wow. You're the first other person that does not like pumpkin pie besides me. What, what is it about pumpkin pie?

Monica Romig-Green: The texture, I didn't like it as a child, and I didn't like that, I'm going to get a little gaggy when I think about it, that, that taste with that texture just doesn't go together to me, like it's just nasty, like, like it's kind of gaggy for me, I feel the same way about like, I love sweet potato fries, I love, I love like cubed sweet potatoes, you bake me a sweet potato, I will gag on that thing, like that mush, can't do it, can't do it, and pumpkin pie is in that, Category, although I like other pies.

I just. Okay,

Andrew Camp: do you do it since I was a child? Do you do other pumpkin desserts or is it

Monica Romig-Green: the flavor is associated with that? So it's hard, but I'll do like a pumpkin loaf. Like, I can do that kind of thing. Um, [01:05:00] pumpkin tarts, not so much. Yes,

Andrew Camp: people always ask like, what's Thanksgiving dessert for you? I'm like, nothing like.

I don't care about Thanksgiving dessert, like,

Monica Romig-Green: You're like, no, thank you. Yeah, I'll do, I'll do it, I'll do other pies. I love other pies, but my whole life, it was my mother telling me, you haven't, you just haven't tried it. Because it's a once in, once a year thing, right? And every year I'd try it, I'd be like, no. I think I remember not liking it last time, and I still don't like it.

And, uh, so it became a big joke in my family. My, like, oh, we have a pumpkin pie just for Monica.

Andrew Camp: Yep. Well, then, on the other end of the spectrum, what's the best thing you've ever eaten? Of all your meals you've done now, what's

Monica Romig-Green: Good gracious. The best, the best, I, I can't, okay, I can't say the best food. I can say the best meal.

Okay. Can I do that? Yes, that's [01:06:00] fair. So One Christmas, Matthew and I were back in California, and Mike invited us to dinner at Providence. Providence is Michael Cimaristi's restaurant. It's a seafood restaurant, ostensibly, but it is consistently the highest, like, restaurants come and go, right? Yeah. It consistently, like, knocks it out of the park for years and years and years.

And so, we've been there before. We've been there, I've been there for lunch with, like, Mike likes to go back there because it's so good. I, I, I, this might have been our fifth or sixth time at, at Providence, but this particular, we had a ritual with Mike, right, that he would, we would open the menu, we'd look at the tasting menu options, and then he'd look at the a la carte.

to see if there were things in the a la carte he wanted that wasn't on the tasting menu and that would make our decision as to what we had. We key off of Mike. It's his dime. We're along for the ride. Right? It's his generosity. Well, this one particular Christmas, he looks at the menu and [01:07:00] we're waiting for the ritual and he just closes the menu and he says, I think today we'll do the chef's 15 course tasting menu.

And we looked at each other like, what? And he goes, with wine pairings.

I have never in my life, like, what? Yeah. To this day, Matthew and I go, like, I don't have any reference. Right. They were just bringing food, right? And it was. All incredible. And we were trying to remember like what we had. It was all amazing. And the wine was flowing and the food. Oh, man. Fifteen courses at, at, uh, Providence.

That'll, that'll do it. That's, I think that's what heaven is like. It's gotta be.

Andrew Camp: No. So final question then. If you knew you had one final meal, what would you choose?

Monica Romig-Green: My [01:08:00] goodness.

If I had one final meal. What would be more important than what was on the table that was, would be who was at the table. For sure. Right? Yeah. It would be who was at the table. Yeah. And so whatever that food would be, you know what? I'd let people just bring. It would be a potluck. Everybody bring whatever they want to bring.

Because that would be the most incredible expression of love from each person. Yeah. To the whole, to the whole group. That's

Andrew Camp: beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you, Monica, for joining me. This has been a lot of fun just to catch up, share stories. Thank you, Andrew. Yeah, and just to hear and to talk about food again.

If people wanted to follow what you're up to or get in touch with you, is there a way [01:09:00] they can reach out to you?

Monica Romig-Green: Sure! Yeah, I've got, I've got two websites. I've got Monica Romig Green. com. That's my spiritual direction website and, which I need to update the pictures on. And I, I also have PlayWithoutCeasing.

com, uh, and that is play, P L A Y, without ceasing dot com because I, I lead retreats and workshops on improv and prayer.

Andrew Camp: That's awesome. I know one thing we didn't touch on that I'd love to talk someday about is the role of improvisation and food and where how the two can Oh, I'd

Monica Romig-Green: have to think about that.

That would be super fun.

Andrew Camp: You know, maybe Chopped esque, you know, the TV show Chopped esque, but. I love Chopped. Couldn't do it. Yeah. But what, what role can improvisation and food play in

Monica Romig-Green: a spiritual? Oh, that would be really fun to talk about. Can we have another conversation?

Andrew Camp: Absolutely. Always. Okay. All right.

Thanks. Well, thanks for joining us on this episode of The Biggest Table, where we [01:10:00] explore what it means to be transformed by God's love around the table and through food. Until next time, bye.