The Biggest Table

The Biggest Table--Episode 08 (Nate Westwick)
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Andrew Camp: [00:00:00] This episode of The Biggest Table is brought to you in part by Wild Goose Coffee. Since 2008, wild goose has sought to build better communities through coffee.

For our listeners, Wild Goose is offering a special promotion of 20% off a one-time order using the code table at checkout. To learn more. And to order coffee, please visit Wild Goose Coffee.com.

In this episode, I am joined by the owner and founder of Wild Goose Coffee, Nate. Westwick we talk about coffee a lot, but more than just coffee, we talk about why coffee is important for communities. And how coffee might help us pay attention to the world around us. We also talk about Nate's new book, clearing the path and his journey as an author, enjoy the episode.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Biggest Table. I'm your host, Andrew Camp, and in this podcast, we explore the table, food, eating, and hospitality as an arena for experiencing God's love and our love for one another.

And today I'm joined by [00:01:00] my good friend, Nate Westwick. Nate Westwick is the owner and founder of Wild Goose Coffee Roasters, a specialty coffee roaster in Redlands, California.

He is a former high school math teacher who works also in the spiritual formation department at Sandals Church, a multi site church in Southern California, creating content aimed at bringing people along in their personal discipleship journey. Nate also recently published his first book entitled Clearing the Path, Connecting with God in a Cluttered World.

He lives in the Redlands area with his wife of 24 years and his three teenage boys. Thanks for joining me today, Nate.

Nate Westwick: Thanks for having me, Andrew. Yeah, Nate.

Andrew Camp: I'm looking forward to this. Yeah. No, me too. And because Nate and I first met back It's been like 12, 13 years now when we were both attending Restoration Covenant Church Redlands and you and your wife graciously invited Claire and I who were newly married to join your small group and who knew 13 years later, we would still be friends.

Nate Westwick: It's it's been an utter [00:02:00] blessing.

Andrew Camp: No, that's for sure. Yeah So what I'm excited to is, you know Nate is a Big cheerleader of mine. Um, and so wild goose is now helping sponsor and, you know, bring to the biggest table, which I'm excited about. I'm not sure where all of this will lead, but, uh, Nate, I just really appreciate all your support and

Nate Westwick: kind of keep you well fueled man.

Andrew Camp: No, it's true. And your coffee does, does bring me joy each and every morning. So.

Nate Westwick: Am I allowed to say that? That your coffee is delicious? Yes. I don't drink coffee much, but when I do, it's Wild Goose. There you go. And I do drink coffee much.

Andrew Camp: Awesome. So Nate, tell us about Wild Goose. Tell us why, what led you to start being a coffee roaster and provider?

Nate Westwick: Yeah. Yeah, boy. Uh. You know, that, that story could last quite some time, but I'll try to keep it relatively brief. I, um, at one point in time, so I was a high school math teacher. [00:03:00] I always had this entrepreneurial itch, um, where it just, it just wouldn't go away. And over coffee with a friend one day, um, he made a comment that really just kind of ignited what had been about seven years of latent thought.

And I was like, oh my gosh, I could do this business thing. Um, I could do it in coffee. And, you know, the whole nature of coffee is that by our commerce, we can actually do good, um, you know, across the world really. And so part of my, my struggles with starting a business was I didn't want to do it just to line my own pockets.

And so, um, you know, with coffee, if we practice fair trade. Buying principles and I can explain the difference between capital F capital T fair trade versus just what we do, which is what we call fairly traded. Um, as long as I'm purchasing well from the farmers in Guatemala, Ethiopia, Kenya, et cetera, that purchase is helping to create a better life for families abroad.

And then I also wanted to take that one step [00:04:00] closer to home. And so from the very beginning, we committed to donating 10 pounds of food to local food banks for every pound of coffee that we sold. And so, um, this idea of, you know, it's kind of the early stages of social entrepreneurship. Now it's like a thing.

Um, this was back in 2006 when the idea first came and, um. Yeah, the whole thing is just kind of ignited from there. I've always loved coffee, um, both from its practical standpoint, but also its communal standpoint. There's something about sitting and having a cup of coffee together with a friend that just seems to break down barriers, opens conversation, and that's always been something I've really enjoyed.

Andrew Camp: No, for sure. And yeah, your tagline is, um, better communities through better coffee. And so you sort of touched on it, but how do you see coffee creating better communities, both where you buy the beans and then also here locally?

Nate Westwick: Yeah, it's funny. I started the business while I was still in the classroom and, um, you know, economically, it's really easy to see [00:05:00] like, okay, pay a fair price, help people out, donate money to local food banks, help people out.

So that part made sense. Um, what was interesting to me is, um, we were doing a back to school night. Our parent teacher conferences or something to that effect and for whatever reason, the administration decided to put it in the gym rather than in everybody's classrooms. So I set up an espresso bar for the staff, um, you know, after back to school night, come and get a free coffee.

And this was the early days of wild goose. And what was fascinating to me is I watched my colleagues. Linger in conversation, 30 minutes, 45 minutes, an hour after back to school night was over. And I swear it's because they had a cup of coffee in their hands. And there's, there's a, a really strange phenomenon that happens when there's a, even the smallest of physical barriers between you and me, if you and I are standing there talking, it just feels super awkward.

But if I can hold something, casually sip something, now all of a sudden there's community that's happening. There's conversation that's happening. And I was watching this happen with my colleagues who wouldn't [00:06:00] hang out. Necessarily otherwise. And yet here they were, um, all hanging out. It was really, really lovely.

Andrew Camp: No, for sure. But so

I don't know how to ask this question. So I'm just gonna ask it. So why can't that be just folders? Why? Why do we need? That's

Nate Westwick: true. You know, like, I mean, if you hate your community, you can serve them that kind of coffee. But, um, no, you know, it's interesting. I think, uh, There's something about things that taste good that inherently, I think, make us want to linger when I've been in my, like, I look at my teenage boys and, um, you know, we're a foodie household.

So we really enjoy cooking and eating excellent food and. Even in their teenage boy ness, where they can just, like, pack in food like nothing else, there's something about eating something really, really tasty that causes us all to slow down, enjoy time at the table, having conversation, laughing. You know, it's teenage [00:07:00] boy humor, so sometimes that can be, you know, hit and miss.

But, um, And so I think the same is true with artisan coffee with specialty coffee. So, you know, if it's, I was thinking about, you know, I have people in my life who I would consider like functional eaters, right? Like give me the nutrition, give me the food. I actually had a friend tell me one time if they invented a food pill where I wouldn't have to sit down and eat a meal, I would be totally down with that.

It would be great. And I'm thinking, man, you're missing out, you know, because so there's something about functional coffee. And then there's something about coffee that you sip and savor, you know, and, and let it last for a while. And so, uh, I would say that's why kind of big box store bought canned coffee maybe wouldn't, uh, invite that kind of community because there's not that sip and savor linger kind of a feel to it.

Andrew Camp: No, it's a mass produced. You know, it's a fast food, you know, and fast food restaurants are designed Specifically for you not to get

Nate Westwick: out. That's right

Andrew Camp: You know, it doesn't [00:08:00] it's not a place that invites me lingering whereas, you know Nice restaurants places that want you to linger. They make sure everything is coalesced around that experience Yeah, so walk us through the the experience of your coffee like For people who don't know, like what, how does this all work?

Nate Westwick: Sure. So, uh, you know, when I first was getting into coffee roasting, um, you know, I obviously had a ton of questions and like, you know, kind of similar to that, how, how does it work in short? Um, we are taking two halves of a pit of a cherry. So imagine a cherry for a second, remove the fruit and you got this pit.

Well, in a coffee cherry, it's actually. You know, the bean that we would say is actually two halves of a cherry. Those get processed, um, dried, bagged in 150 pound burlap sacks and shipped to people like me. So then we, um, we'll roast the coffee. So the, the interesting thing about the end result is if you want a really great cup of [00:09:00] coffee, it's about 50% The green coffee that you're the unroasted coffee that you're putting into the machine, and it's about 50%.

Um, how you roast it and the equipment you're using. And the other 50 percent is brewing. Um, yes, for those of you listening, I did used to be a math teacher, and that does not add up to 100%. But you get you get my point. So, um, sourcing excellent coffee is critical. And so for us, our process, you know, if you want the most granular of details, we, we actually will call importers and say, Hey, we're sourcing an Ethiopian coffee right now.

We're looking for a good Ethiopia. Can you send me your top lots? And they'll send 200 gram, uh, samples and then we'll sample roast them. And cup them. So cupping is not like the athletic thing where you get all these funky looking circular hickeys on your back. Um, but it's actually, you know, you're, you're tasting it with a spoon.

And so we can have a whole table. We might have 8 to 10 to 15 different Ethiopias on a table and we're tasting them all. Um, and the ones that stand out and, and Preferably the one that [00:10:00] stands out the most is the one that we select because when we're buying coffee, you know, it's not like, you know, we're buying a 12 ounce bag.

We're buying, you know, up to tens of thousands of pounds of coffee at a time. And so it's kind of like test driving a car. You want to know that it's good. And so, so that's our first preliminary process. And then, um, Um, at wild goose, we roast everything to order because fresh coffee is better coffee. And so an order comes in on our, on our website, a wholesale cafe orders, you know, a hundred pounds or whatever.

Then we, you know, roast it the next day. And, um, so that process is equipment, it's technical expertise, it's heat transfer, it's not scorching it, et cetera. And then we get the end result. So, um, People ask about the coffee roasting process and I often describe it as a, like, like if we were to take a green apple, if I were to cut up a green apple and hand you a slice, like how would you describe what you're tasting?

Andrew Camp: Usually I think of green apple, Granny Smith. I think of tart. I think of crunchy, um, thick [00:11:00] skinned. Yep.

Nate Westwick: Fair. Yeah. Maybe a touch of sweetness on the back end, but that's not the primary flavor. But now we cook it. And what happens to that

Andrew Camp: The sugars are brought out until we have a sweeter Correct. Or mellower.

Nate Westwick: Yep. 100%. And so, but you can, now if you overcook it, like let's say I'm cooking these green apples to make an apple pie, the kids are tormenting the dog and you know, I have to go, you know, restore order in our household. You know, I, I can overcook those apples. Those sugars can overdevelop and they can turn into carbon and then it becomes very unpleasant.

Right. You get that bitterness and things like that. And you taste way more of that than you do. You don't even know it used to be a green apple. If you cook it correctly, you still get some of the green apple pleasantness. You get some of the sweetness, you get some of the caramelization and everything works together in this beautiful harmony of flavors.

And so our approach to us, not everybody's, but our approach to roasting is that we still want to taste the green apple and we also still want to taste the sugars [00:12:00] and, and not over roast things. That may be more than you bargained for in the answer, but that's how we do

Andrew Camp: it. It's super fascinating because, you know, it's not a lot of people take time to think through, okay.

How does this product end up? In my cup, you know, and sure, you know, for us, for sometimes, you know, just getting a morning cup of coffee in me so I can deal effectively with my kids is, is what I need. But there are also times where I do need a pour over and I do want, you know, the beauty of, of the coffee to, to come through so I can linger and bring a little more brightness to my day.

Nate Westwick: Both literally and figuratively, right? With the taste, you

Andrew Camp: know, and then, Each coffee then has its unique setup, or each coffee bean has its unique set of properties, you know, because a coffee from Ethiopia is not going to taste the same as a coffee from Guatemala. So how do you then make sure you're, you're paying.

Respect [00:13:00] to the being in the farmers, uh, in that roasting process. Like, how does that, how does that magic sorcery work? You know, it feels like it

Nate Westwick: sure. So we still, at the end of the day, we still want to taste the green apple going back to that metaphor. And so, um, and then what's really interesting is coffee is a lot like wine in that, um, you know, just as much as grapes bring in some of the local tour are, and then the flavors nearby coffee does as well.

And so, um, You know, and say if you were to do a tour of the wine country in Napa, um, you know, a cab Sav at the top of the valley might taste different. It will taste different than the cab Sav at the bottom of the valley. And so even though it's the same region. And so with coffee, it's, it's real similar.

So elevation, um, you know, even region to region, you know, soil conditions, moisture, all of those things come into play. And so, you know, a Guatemala from, um, You know, way way to Nango [00:14:00] farm a might taste different from the way way to Nango farm be even though they happen to be neighbors because of the way that the crops are cared for and all these things.

And so, um, this is why we do the sample roasting and, um, we roast to try to bring out the sweetness. But then the coffee itself will, uh, will highlight, um, It's natural what it brings to the table, so to speak. So, and we, we try really hard to, like you said, to kind of honor that if you will, um, and each one is different and unique.

So we've had some coffees that we've absolutely loved on the sampling table and we haven't brought them in because we're like, wow, man, we love that. But it's too similar to this other one we have, even though they're from different regions and we like to keep a variety of flavors and so, but in general, your African coffees are going to taste, um, brighter, more fruity.

Um. You know, those, those kinds of more fireworks in the cup kind of flavors. Uh, I'm drinking a Rwanda natural right now that honestly tastes like Ambrosia salad. Um, and so we were, we were hesitant to put that on our [00:15:00] bag for the cupping notes. Uh, you know, cause I'm like, ah, let's, let's just give it a shot and see if we don't keep Ambrosia salad, I'm going to go with Clementine marshmallow and coconut.

Cause maybe that's what Ambrosia salad is. But I just thought, you know, we'll see if people understand. So I hope they do. Cause it's a great coffee. So, you know, um, And then our Central, your Central American coffees are going to tend toward more chocolatey caramel, things like that. So, um, we tend at Wild Goose to separate our collections into two main categories.

We have the comforting coffees and the adventurous coffees. And so, some of our adventurous coffees are from South America and some of our comforting coffees are from elsewhere. So, um, but generally the comforting would be like that chocolatey caramelly type flavors and the adventurous would be more, You know, the ambrosia salad type of a thing, right?

Like, Hey, give me, give me something I haven't tasted before. Right? No.

Andrew Camp: And I'm a, um, I have a subscription with wild goose and I've always chosen the adventurous and it's always fun. Cause each month I are every so often, however many weeks I subscribe to, um, I get a new [00:16:00] bag and I never know what I'm going to get.

So it's always like, Ooh, the differences, you know, and. Um, I need to keep a habit of like cutting out your description. So I remember what I'm drinking because after, yeah, we have people do that.

Nate Westwick: Yeah. Um, it's really funny. We just recently rebuilt our website. And so I was doing a test run on our subscriptions and I placed an order for myself.

Um, and I told my staff like, Hey, this is just a test run, you know, but I wanted to make sure that the billing, you know, everything worked. Yeah. So we happen to be gone the first week of January. Um, We're on a family trip. We come home and I'm thinking, shoot man, I don't have time to swing by Goose to get coffee, but I'm, I'm sitting on old coffee at home and I happen to go check the mail and in the mail is a Wild Goose subscription bag.

So my staff forgot and they sent it to me and I was like, Dang. And then I was like, wait a minute. No, I can actually use this. And, and I actually, I didn't know what was going to be in there. I knew that I had subscribed for an adventurous yet. And I got to [00:17:00] experience firsthand, like cutting open the bag, like, what's it going to be?

And it was magical.

Andrew Camp: No, it is. It's super fun. Um, so. One other thing, you know, why the name wild goose walk us through this name because I think there's a fun story in that too That you've told

Nate Westwick: me. Yeah, there's like there's such a good story. So in Celtic tradition you know say way back in the day right Celtic farmers would go hunting wild geese and You know, they'd spend all day pursuing the wild goose and, and, and it would lead them on these crazy, unpredictable adventures.

And so at the end of the day, they'd sit around the campfire sharing of their stories of, uh, you know, chasing the wild goose and, and what that adventure looked like for them that day, it became a term of endearment for the Holy spirit. Chasing after the wild goose will lead you on crazy, unpredictable adventures that will far exceed your, your dreams and imaginations.

And so, you know, again, back rooted in Celtic tradition. And so I came across that story and I'm like, man, that is. [00:18:00] That's powerful. And so, so I named the business wild goose, um, for a couple of reasons. Number one, no matter how successful it got, I didn't ever want it to be about me. I wanted to have a constant reminder that this is my pursuit of the wild goose.

And, uh, you know, secondly, it just to pay homage to, to the origins of that name. I think it's just, uh, you know, nothing. As I've, as I've kind of built this business from the ground up, nothing has gone according to plan, but everything has ended up way better than it could have scripted initially. And so, um, you know, I feel like that's kind of God being playful with me.

And so, and what's super cool too is, you know, we're not branded as a quote unquote Christian company. Um, And that's very intentional because I want to be able to reach people who might not otherwise feel comfortable in a church setting or anything like that. But the number of times that I get asked that question, Hey, tell me about the name of wild goose, like, where does that come from?

And I get a chance to share that with customers and I swap God for Holy Spirit. So I don't want them to freak out. Um, but when I [00:19:00] say that, uh, it's, it's such a beautiful. nod to God saying, yeah, like I'm using your business as a ministry into the community, not just to provide basic needs like, you know, food to local food banks, but also very real needs.

What, you know, like there's a social aspect, there's a, you know, a spiritual aspect to what we do, you know, our staff. We go out of our way to be extremely hospitable to our customers because we don't know what kind of a day they're coming in with and and if we can bless them for those two to three minutes that they're in in our roastery grabbing a latte or a bag of coffee like that's great.

And if they happen to ask why the name, that's even better. So, yeah, so

Andrew Camp: no, it's provided opportunities just to share, you know, in ways that may not have been possible.

Nate Westwick: Absolutely. Yep. 100%.

Andrew Camp: Um, so a lot of people drink coffee. as you reflect on your journey as a coffee roaster, what are some of the spiritual lessons we can glean from coffee, you know in the totality of the coffee experience?

Nate Westwick: [00:20:00] Yeah, that's it. I love that question. I would say Primarily the simplest thing we can all do is just to slow down. Mm hmm You know, my family and I were out of town last weekend. I Was ditching my phone for most of the weekend.

It was Absolutely glorious to not be tethered. And, um, they were in one shop and I wanted a cup of coffee. And so I was like, Hey, I'm going to go, you know, a couple of doors down and, uh, you know, I'm going to go a couple of doors down and I don't have my phone. So like, let's just meet up, right? Like old school, right.

Back when we were kids before those things, you know, kind of ruined our lives, but made them so much better all at the same time. So, uh, so I go in and I ordered a double shot of espresso and they asked, do you want it in ceramic for here? My, my first instinct was like, no, no, no, like, let me just get it in paper and I'll just go meet my family, you know, just, I'm just here for the coffee, kind of a thing, right?

I didn't say that, but, and when [00:21:00] they asked that, I thought, yeah, I will, I'll take that for here, and I sat at a table by myself, I didn't have anything to do, because my phone was not with me, and I just sat and watched the cars go by, and I sipped on my espresso, and I thought, you know what, this is a spiritual practice, but instead of, you know, like, today's Society is so ridiculously high paced that just taking a minute to slow down.

Um, and I, I wake up slow. So for me, the discipline is not slowing down in the mornings cause I start at like a negative two, you know, in the, you know, RPM meters. Like, so I make a pour over every single morning and part of my routine is just when I make that first, you know, pass with the water and I just like lean down and smell the bloom.

And that is part of my, like just breathing in the, like the goodness, if you will. It sounds a little bit silly, but. But, but I do, I'm intentional about that practice and I take the time every morning to savor the cup. You know, my morning routine is like brew the pour [00:22:00] over, sit on the couch. If it's chilly, like it's been, I flip on the fireplace, you know, um, and read my Bible, sip my coffee and pray, uh, before I even look at my phone or any of that stuff.

And, but, but what's magical is when you take the time to do those things midday as well, because I know like for me, I'm a pretty. I'm a pretty high paced kind of a guy. And so I noticed that my issues are, I can start the morning really slow, but then the second I get going, it's like a hundred miles an hour, you know, until I crash at night.

And so one of the disciplines I've been trying to do is, is to, to even slow down and. Just, you know, enjoy the coffee in the ceramic, you know, when I'm at wild goose, taking a minute to just talk with the customer or chat with the, you know, staff member and just, you know, just sip saver linger. Um, yeah, that's a long answer to just say, but I think we should slow down.

We should slow down.

Andrew Camp: Yes. Yeah. You know, I think Keurig. Maybe have a place in life. I [00:23:00] don't know where yet. Um,

Nate Westwick: I do, but it rhymes with ash tan or something like that. Yeah. So

Andrew Camp: crash crash. Tan cash. Yeah. So yeah, yeah. I've never had a good cup of Keurig coffee. Let's just

Nate Westwick: put it out from across an office. And, you know, just like we don't have that at wild goose, but at church people will brew Keurig.

So I'm like, Oh, it's just abhorrent.

Andrew Camp: That's the ease and convenience sake. Yes. You know? And it's like, well, I just want caffeine. Like I'm not, I'm not

Nate Westwick: looking. That's back to the food bill, right? We're just doing the functional consumption.

Andrew Camp: So how do we prevent, like, cause a lot of people associate with what you just said of like, oh, sipping my pour over, like, you know, you're, you're a hipster.

You're just out of touch with reality. Like, you know, like there's these ideas we have of people who drink coffee and do pour overs that they're, you know, and it's usually not positive. So how, like for the person who's never done a pour over, what is it about a pour over that. [00:24:00] Is beneficial, you know, not just for the coffee, but, but for life.

Nate Westwick: Yeah, I mean, for the coffee, you just get so much better quality control. Um, you get temperature control of the water, you get brewing ratios, you get all the stuff. Yes, I use a scale for my beans. Yes, I use a scale for my water. I just posted a video on my social media. I said, yeah, I'm a bit neurotic, but it's my neuro season, so it's very close to me.

Yeah, exactly. So, um, but again, it goes back to that. Like, there's something. You know, if, if, and I do pour overs midday, like if, if I'm on the run, um, being forced to slow down and, and, and weigh out the coffee and, you know, it's a two and a half minute brew for one cup, like methodically swirling the kettle over the tops of the beans.

Like, just that whole process is, um, it's got its own catharsis to it and, uh. You know, the next [00:25:00] step would be if I'm able to be spiritually attentive in that slowing down a lot of times, my mind is still going on all the things and, um, you know, but one of the things I've been trying to practice, even this isn't directly related to your question, but even, um, you know, when I'm at work, I've been trying to a take lunches because as a business owner, it's really easy to skip lunches and be, I've been trying to eat lunch.

Out in the cafe area with no phone, no book, nothing to distract me, but just to just pause and just breathe. And it might mean a conversation with a person, it might mean that I sit there bored, like I, you know. Super high seven on the Enneagram for those Enneagram fans out there. And so I hate inactivity.

I hate being bored. Um, I've been trying to embrace the discomfort of being bored because I think there's a spiritual practice in that as well. Um, and just being able to say, okay, this moment doesn't have to be jam packed. And I, and like I said, I, I'm [00:26:00] a father of, you know, three teenage boys. We have an incredibly packed schedule.

Um, you know, I have my, uh, my hands on a lot of different projects. And so, you know, it's, it's not the man, that must be nice. This dude's totally out of touch. It's like, no, no, I'm running a hundred miles an hour, but, but the discipline of pausing, um, to savor an espresso, the different, the, the, the discipline of pausing to make a pour over, pausing to take a lunch without devices.

Uh, cause I'm an, I'm an input, like I want to learn, I'm always reading books. I'm in multiple books. It's, you know what I mean? But just like to set all that aside, even if it's for 10 minutes, you know, like I'm not taking a half hour lunch, I don't have time for that, but even if it's for 10 minutes, just like sit.

And I'll never forget, man, one day it was, it was a couple months ago, we have a sandwich shop next door to our place and, and I ordered a Euro sandwich and I just sat with the sandwich and a cup of ice water. And I was just like, you know. So overwhelmed with gratitude that [00:27:00] moment to pause and slow down opened up opportunities for gratitude that wouldn't have otherwise been there because I would have just glossed right past him because I was, you know, running too fast.

God, I'm so grateful for this Euro mean it's so good. Lord, the nourishing of ice water. I know it sounds really dramatic, but like it just I was just like overcome by that. I was like, man, like this water is so refreshing right now. This moment to just pause is You know, you know now am I amazing and do I do that every single day?

No When I don't do it for a couple days in a row do I notice that I haven't done it a hundred percent, right? And so just like any spiritual discipline, we all know what we need to be doing We just rarely do it and so that's where that discipline just like going to work out like you and I were talking before we started recording like you and I both went to the gym, you know, you're in Flagstaff and I'm in Redlands, you know, but like That discipline of getting a workout in is good for our bodies.

It's good for our mental [00:28:00] capacity. It's, you know, for me personally carrying all the things I carry, it helps me to not be a terrible boss and a terrible husband and a terrible father. Cause I can just, you know, work all that stuff out. So, you know, just like anything else, we just have to be mindful.

Andrew Camp: No, for sure.

And I think too, you know, like a good glass of wine, like a good glass of scotch, which you and I both enjoy, you know, being, being attentive though. I think part of the beauty of food and beverage is that being attentive to what is happening and not just as a utilitarian functional aspect, but to be attentive in that small detail that might actually help us pay attention.

To other people, I think there is a correlation. If we can start paying attention, like you said, slow down, enjoy something, not for a half hour, but you know, a pour over takes two to five minutes. You know, um, but what that can do for the [00:29:00] rest of our days, I think can be profound.

Nate Westwick: I a hundred percent agree.

I, I, um, you know, not to get overly philosophical, but our society, we live in such an insulated society. Um, you know, it's, it's raining here in Southern California today. I, I have the ability to avoid every single drop of rain if I wanted to. Right, right. Um. You know, when it's cold, I flip on the heater.

When it's hot, I flip on the A. C. When it's, you know, I can control all of the environments. But what happens is I miss out on on the reality around me. And so, um, you know, when I sometimes if I'm if I'm spending a few hours working from home, I'll sit on the back patio even if it's cold. You know, throw on the fire in the fire pit and put a blanket around and I'm like, okay, like it's, it's not perfectly comfortable out right now.

There's birds. Oh, I can hear those birds. Right. That's nice. Like there's, there's, you know, Oh, there's somebody mowing his lawn over there. That's less nice. Yeah. But, [00:30:00] but like, like you were talking about, like being attentive and just paying, like just noticing. I really do believe it does help me to notice like, Oh, you know, my wife came home and she seems a little bit sad.

Like I might not have noticed that before if I hadn't practiced the noticing, you know, maybe you're making a pour over and you're like, okay, the cupping notes say Ambrosia salad. Like, let me, let me see if I can taste, well, I don't really get the Mandarin, but I kind of taste a little hint of coconut.

Great. We're noticing. Right. Um, You know, I'm not always in tune with my wife, but when I am, that's great noticing right or my kids, right? Like, hey, buddy, what's wrong? You know, um, and they're boys, so they're not going to know and they're not going to say because they don't know. And, you know, but, but at least we can, we can notice, right?

And, and then even more, um, on a deeper level, like God, where are you moving today? And, and, you know, those, those times where I can avail myself to those opportunities, whether it be with a customer, whether it be with my kids or my family or, or a friend or whomever, um, [00:31:00] you know, that slowing down that noticing that removing the insulations and actually just like being present to the life that's around us, the flavors that are around us.

I do see a hundred percent parallel.

Andrew Camp: No, that's awesome, which I think this provides a great transition because you've recently written a book called, um, clearing the path, connecting with God in a cluttered world, which I think we've just been talking about. How has your journey with wild goose then informed this new arena of your life of, because you're not only a coffee roaster, you're You're employed by Sandals Church, which is a big multi site church in Southern California, and now you've written a book.

So you really do run at a hundred miles per hour. Walk us through then this, this new aspect of your journey in this publishing aspect.

Nate Westwick: Sure. Yeah. Um, a, that was the fulfillment of a long time dream to be able to get a book out. Um, the, the process of writing, you know, I know that you've preached sermons before and, and [00:32:00] anybody who's had the privilege of preaching or, or anything like that, um, The communion that you have with God as you prepare to preach and even as you're on stage preaching right like that That is a unique Closeness with God and I got to do that for the entire writing process I just felt like God gave me the things to say I don't want to make that overly like the sayest the Lord, you know, it's not that but just like it's just that communion with God of like man, this is This is so cool.

Um, and so, yeah, so the, the purpose for the book, I think is the question you asked. You can correct me cause I'm, I got a little bit off track on my communion with God bit. You know, that whole communion with God bit, but how dare you, how dare I, the, the, the idea is, um, you know, I, I wrote, well, let me back up.

So, so I was reading, we, we were on a, Family trip. I guess we [00:33:00] take a lot of family trips. People tease me. But, um, you know, when you go 100 miles an hour, you need to also take time to rest and be present to family and create moments with each other. So we're on a long trip. Um, and in three weeks, I checked my email once.

Um, during that whole span, uh, and that was because my wife was cc'd on an email and she's like, uh, Nate, you really need to respond to this. I'm like, I don't want to respond to this. That's why, like we're on, we're on a trip. I try to unplug as much as possible. So I responded, uh, cause it needed addressing.

And, um, nevertheless, there was three weeks of total declutter. Hmm. Uh, and. My goodness man, it was like, like I legit, and I'm not, I don't have any problem with playing games on your phone, but I, I legit, like the last time I played Wordle, this is a true story, was two summers ago, because we were on vacation, I was doing Wordle, I love words, I love puzzles, and I'm like, I don't want to be tethered to this either.

Like it's not the game itself. [00:34:00] Isn't bad. It's actually cool, but I just want to be free of all of it. And so I did, I just like, I, I put my phone away for three weeks, except for to use as a camera really. Um, and, uh, so the, the time that like the moments that I had again, kind of that slowing down, being attentive to, we were overseas.

So being attentive to the flavors of the food we were eating, being attentive to the scenery, being attentive to my family and how the power enjoying the moments. Um, It was so beautiful and in that span and I was going through kind of a stressful period through with wild goose and during that span I was reading a book and it offered a challenge and so I just I challenge you to read Isaiah 40 for a week straight and see what that does for your soul.

And I'm like, challenge accepted. That sounds awesome. And I think I read that maybe on the plane coming home or something. I forget. So, so we get home after three weeks of decluttering and I read Isaiah 40 and I'm like, that's a beautiful passage. And the next morning I read it again and the next morning, you know, and I [00:35:00] read it for six days straight because you know, a week in the business world is five days, but I'm an overachiever.

So we had to throw a sixth in there, but I Sabbathed on the seventh, so it was okay. But what was, what stood out to me was that this is the passage that John the Baptist quotes. To announce the arrival of Jesus in the flesh. Hmm. Um, and I'm like, okay, that's really big. Like that's really, and then of course, you know, like, so, so then there's this, this thought of like, but if a name for Jesus is Immanuel, God with us, what if Isaiah 40 isn't just for people walking the earth when Jesus did?

But if Jesus is God with us, what, how can we take Isaiah 40 and apply that to our own lives? How can we, and moreover, when the dudes are walking on the road to Emmaus after Jesus reveals himself, what's their response? Weren't our hearts burning from within as he walked with us? I want that kind of a [00:36:00] faith.

I want that kind of a relationship with Jesus, where I'm like, man, my heart was burning from within because we were walking together. And so, you know, as I dug deeper into Isaiah 40, it just seemed to unpack kind of a roadmap for how we can access a more intimate, authentic relationship with Jesus. And what's really fascinating is as you read Isaiah 40, um, you know, for you listeners, I would challenge you, like read it.

It's a great passage. You know, there's this thunder in the desert bit. There's like make the path straight bit. Like, I believe that's like what we can do in our hearts. Um, Then it transitions into this really bizarre, almost like end of Job kind of a thing, like all these things about God and how he can like, you know, who he is.

And I, and, and I'm like, man, that's like, we make God in our image all the time. And that passage in Isaiah says, no, like God is God. [00:37:00] God gets to speak for himself and let's pay attention to who he is based on what he says. And then it ends with the famous, you know, those, uh, who trust in the Lord will renew their strength.

They will run and not grow weary. They will walk and not be faint. They will fly on the wings of eagles, right? Like, yeah, there's this beautiful, I think I'm juxtaposed a couple of sentences, but there's this beautiful promise of hope. And so, um, so I wrote the book Because a lot of times I think people think that spirituality or spiritual practices like I had a friend say like I'm not like you I can't just go like sit out in a field and just like ponder the mysteries of God for hours upon hours.

We're more alike than you think actually. I can't do that either. So I think there's this. Um, construct that like, well, the super spiritual ones like have to be pastors or they have to be, you know, seminary degree, or they have to be someone who has the freedom of schedule to go sit in the field for hours [00:38:00] upon hours and meditate upon the mysteries of God.

Right. Like, I don't. Find that to be true. Like I'm a I'm a business owner. I'm a father You know, I do the work with sandals because it's a passion of mine Like these this spiritual life this intimacy with Jesus is accessible to everybody You don't have to be special and so I wrote the book as a very practical guide For how to do that based 100 percent on scripture.

Cause if it's my own ideas, that's who cares about what I think, right? If it's God's word, I'm like, well, maybe you have something to say about that, that we can trust. And so, um. There's a lengthy answer to your, to your question, but that, um, has always been a passion of mine to be able to kind of demystify the spiritual life.

Um, you know, like I'm not as smart as Dallas Willard. I can't operate the way he did. Right. Right. Um, you know, there's so many spiritual giants out there. C. S. Lewis, like [00:39:00] whomever, like I, I, I'm, I wish. But I'm not, you know, and so, uh, and I would imagine there's a lot of listeners out there who could relate to that, right?

Like, but we can all access the same Jesus. And that's the beautiful thing about that.

Andrew Camp: Wow. You said a lot there.

Nate Westwick: Um, sometimes I say a lot, I can talk,

Andrew Camp: you can't know. And it was, there was a lot of great stuff. Um, so what's So demystifying, I love it because it's like, okay, I feel like you're demystifying coffee and now you're demystifying the spiritual life.

So like, um, which is great, like it should be accessible. It shouldn't be for the hoity toity, it shouldn't, you know, good food and savoring shouldn't be just reserved for people who can afford to eat out.

Nate Westwick: You know what you say that it's really funny because I'm going to derail just for a quick second that when I look at so I'm I'm in the specialty coffee industry, there are times when I'll go into a specialty coffee shop [00:40:00] and I'm like, I, I'm not cool enough to be here.

Yeah, and I hate that feeling, right? I absolutely hate that feeling. And and as you said that it just sparked because I never really thought about this before. But when when I look at the customers who come in to wild goose, we are intentionally down to earth as a company. Kind of our internal motto is we take our coffee but not ourselves seriously.

And so like we laugh, we have fun. And it's kind of like if you've ever been to a fine dining restaurant and the server is just relaxed, They're knowledgeable, but they're not pretentious and you just kind of, oh, right. And then you feel permission, like, you know, what is foist grass and, you know, like, oh, well, foie gras, which by the way, we had foie gras in France and even my teenage kids loved it, which was great.

So, um, but there's just something that is, is, um, It breaks down the barriers, [00:41:00] and people can feel comfortable discovering and learning new things, and that's the type of climate that we have at Wild Goose, and you're right, like, that's, that's what I tried to, to, to do with clearing the path, and, and the feedback I've had is that it feels very conversational, like, yeah, it feels like you and I are sitting down over a cup of coffee, and you're just, like, talking about things, I'm like, good, that's, That's what I wanted because we don't need to be building these walls up to make us ourselves feel better.

That's not the goal,

Andrew Camp: you know, no, and especially in today's culture, we need things that break down walls and break down barriers absolutely and help people talk to one another better and help people relate to each other in more ways, you know, and coffee plays a huge role in that.

Nate Westwick: It really does. Yeah,

Andrew Camp: it really does.

And good books and good questions and good. Models that can help people find their way. Um, we need voices. Um, did you ever expect yourself to [00:42:00] be, be in this role?

Nate Westwick: Um, , I don't know.

that's a good question. I, I, so, I, I learned, so I'm a, I'm a, I'm a future oriented person. Um, I'm always looking on the horizon. I'm always wanting to see what's, what's coming. And I learned, gosh, at least 10 years ago that that, while that is my natural bent and that can be a strength because I can look and predict and see, you know, things like that.

Not always accurately, but maybe, you know. More aware than others, potentially, um, not others. Like, you know, there's a lot of people with that natural bent look in the, in the future. Um, and I've kind of stopped trying to predict where, you know, the, the clear path for me does not, um, [00:43:00] I can't. I can't see a whole lot further than just a few steps ahead, right?

And I think that's one of God's graces to me Because then it kind of forces me to stay present to him instead of getting ahead of him. Mm hmm. And So, you know to your question I've I've been Like when you read the bio earlier, I was like, Whoa, like, I guess I've done a few things, but, um, I don't, I don't feel like it in the moment.

I just, and part of that is, you know, maybe trying too hard in my younger years to try to predict the future and see where that path was going. And, and I think God's, God's grace for us is to say, I'm, I'm here, you know, kind of, kind of like an Exodus, right? Like if the cloud moves, you move. And if the cloud stays, you stay and just be with me.

Yeah. Um, yeah. So I, I don't, yeah, I guess there's my answer. No,

Andrew Camp: it's great. Um, and so as [00:44:00] we begin to think about wrapping up, you know, as a coffee guy. What tips would you give for people to bake make a better cup of coffee at home? Like where do people start?

Nate Westwick: Sure, so the two biggest components Are get good fresh roasted coffee beans.

You can find your local roaster I I you know, obviously feel free to visit wild goose if you like We do have a web store. I Can confirm that it works because I got that subscription to my house by mistake. Uh, but it was addressed to me, so it wasn't somebody else's subscriptions. That's good. But, um, you know, start with fresh coffee.

Um, I am adamantly opposed to over roasted dark coffee that goes back to the green apple metaphor where I'm chasing after the kids chasing after the dog and the sugars burn, and now you're just drinking like really over roasted burnt. You know, stuff that's, it's really not good for your stomach, you know, if you have a side note, you know, people, if, if, if you can't drink more than two cups of coffee without your stomach being upset, it's [00:45:00] because you're drinking rancid oils.

So in college, I swore by, um, I'm not going to name the place, but it was actually like a higher level, uh, larger produced. And I would open up the it was a can, but it was whole beans and they would be jet black and oily. And I'd be like, man, that's the good stuff. Um, but you know, the, the problem is those oils turn rancid with oxygen really, really quickly.

And so if you can't drink more than two cups of coffee without your stomach getting upset, it's because you're drinking rancid oil, just as if you had two cups of sour milk, like, of course, your stomach's going to hurt. So stay away from that. Uh, an artisan roaster will roast And cut the roast before those oils escape and get to the surface of the beans.

So there's a stage in the roast process called first crack, where you can hear an audible crack, kind of like popcorn. It, um, is when the sugar development is super critical. So heat application is really, uh, temperant at that moment. You need to be careful that you're not Scorching it and burning the sugars too quickly, but you do want to let them kind of ride out and develop a little bit.

And then if you continue roasting, you hear [00:46:00] second crack, which is when the oils move from the interior of the bean to the surface of the bean. And that's what you want to avoid. So if you have oily coffee, I would say ditch that right away. Um, don't freeze your coffee, just store it in a, you know, airtight.

Room temperature container. Don't get it too hot. Don't get it too cold. Just let it chill. Let it let it be itself Yeah, and you know, I always say to drink within two weeks of roast date I joke with my friends and I'm a professional taster so I can taste a little bit of a drop off in quality after two weeks I taste a more significant drop off in quality after three weeks.

So hence two to three weeks after roast date And then use good water. And so, um, stay away from distilled water that doesn't have the mineral content to, you know, extract the flavor that you want. Um, I use crystal geyser. Uh, I'm not a paid sponsor of crystal geyser, but yeah, I just go to the market and, you know, the other day I grabbed a, I went to the market and I grabbed like a, A six pack, I guess, of gallon water.

So it's like, uh, that's a lot of water there, buddy. And like some customer and he was [00:47:00] kind of being critical and I'm like, yeah, well, I use it for coffee. And then he kind of figured out what I do. And then he's like, oh, now I respect you more. I'm like, that's great. Uh, thanks for respecting me now that we've had a conversation, but you know, so I, I buy it in bulk because I am thrifty that way.

And, um. Yeah, so good coffee and good water. And then then the next step would be to up your game by considering doing a pour over, uh, situation rather than like a Uh, you know, home coffee brewer because those home coffee brewers brew at like maybe 180 degrees and um, you don't get the flavor extraction at that.

So I, I brew at 205 because that's how I roll. So a kettle will help you to do that in the pour over helps you do that. Yeah,

Andrew Camp: I need to find out what temperature water actually boils up here at Flagstaff since we're at 7000 because I'm not sure that's

Nate Westwick: an interesting thing. Yeah. When I've traveled to elevation, I have to get, um, yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a whole different ballgame.

Um, you know, it's a different ballgame. Like when I, we go skiing and Brian [00:48:00] had Utah and that's at 10, 000 feet. And, um, I actually bring darker roasted coffee, even though it's not my preference. Um, yeah. You know, but I'll and I'll, I'll find myself even brewing like, um, I could pour over, but espresso style.

So it's like super dense and just a tiny bit and it's very pleasant. Um, but it's not what I would drink at home, but yeah, that elevation makes a big difference. Cause I think Brian had it, it boils at like one 95 or something crazy like that. Okay. Yeah.

Andrew Camp: So we're probably around 200 hopefully here. Yeah.

Nate Westwick: There we go. Cause we're at 7, 000. Yeah.

Andrew Camp: Um, awesome. So yeah. Good coffee. Um, and speaking of ordering good coffee, wild goose for our listeners is offering a promotion. Am I correct in this?

Nate Westwick: You are a hundred percent correct. Yeah.

Andrew Camp: Yeah. So if listeners, if you. Go to WildGooseCoffee. com, um, and at checkout, enter the promotion code TABLE, T A B L E, you will get 20 percent off your order.

Yep. Um, so if you're interested in trying better beans [00:49:00] and helping create better communities, um, yeah, go buy your beans through WildGoose or find another provider that, um, is local that. Sources, great beans and does a great job roasting. Um, but no, I highly recommend wild goose. Um, and excited because I think my subscription is coming up to get me another bag.

So I just got my notes.

Nate Westwick: Yeah, nice. I couldn't tell you what it's going to be, but I know it's going to be good. Cause we just got four, four brand new adventurous coffees in last week. We did the production cuppings on all those and they were very exciting.

Andrew Camp: Awesome. Sweet. Um, hopefully that's helpful for people.

Um, as people know, I, at the end of the podcast, I'd love a little few rapid fire, fun questions, Nate. Um, and so what is one food you refuse to eat?

Nate Westwick: Okay. So, um, I was talking with, uh, Christmas day, we were with my wife's family and, um, there was, there's some Asian street food. [00:50:00] That's like a. Embryo developed embryo in an egg.

Andrew Camp: Oh,

Balut from the Philippines.

Nate Westwick: Yes. Yes. And I'm like, no, like I'm an adventurous eater, man. But I, like we, so I'm like, what is this? I start pulling up pictures now, refuse to eat. Cause like, I haven't had the opportunity to, and if I were, you know, if I lost a bet or something, I probably would slurp it down, but I just, it just looked disgusting and maybe it's great, but I just.

There's certain things, man. And that's, and like, I'll eat almost anything, you know, um, but I won't do that.

Andrew Camp: Okay. I actually had the privilege of trying Balut in culinary school. A classmate brought it in. I was like, dude, I will try that in a heartbeat. How is it? It's fine. Like it's, it's the, it's the psychological process of eating an embryonic chicken.

Yes, that is. Yeah. Like it's weird, you

Nate Westwick: know, but I mean, does it is the taste even like, like oysters are weird, but at least they kind of taste good.

Andrew Camp: Yeah. Oysters are delicious. [00:51:00] Um, no, I don't remember the flavor and the taste too much. It was more of just then

Nate Westwick: I stand by my answer. If it's not memorable to you, then I don't need to deal with that.

Because I respect your palate,

Andrew Camp: it's memorable in the fact that I can say I've eaten it and it's one of those.

Nate Westwick: Yeah, if you'd said it's one of the best things you ever tasted, then I would actually reconsider my my list.

Andrew Camp: But no. So speaking of best things, what is the best thing you have ever eaten?

Nate Westwick: So it's always really, really hard for me to pick like favorite this or best that right?

Um, I will say, so we, we were, we took a family trip. My, my wife's a teacher and she, she says, I work so that we can travel. And I'm like, that's a great gig. I love that. So we were in France, uh, I sound super bougie when I say this and we're, you know, I'm a, I'm not a bougie guy. I just like to hunt for a really good deal.

So we got a really great deal. So we happened to be in France, um, but we were driving. From the Riviera to the Alps, but via [00:52:00] Italy. Okay, so I know you're so bougie. Don't judge. Don't judge me I'm wearing a white t shirt right now. I guess your boutique

Andrew Camp: coffee roaster Traveling through France in the Swiss Alps.

So yeah,

Nate Westwick: I just you know, my friends tease me. I like nice things That's all but I like nice things that a good deal. Yeah, so so we're driving through Italy and You know, I, I joke with people like, yeah, I've, I've only ever been to Italy for lunch because we stopped for lunch in Italy. My wife pulls up the phone.

She's like, Oh, I think I found us. Not, I think she's like, I found us a spot. Just get off the highway and head down this Hill. So we're up on the top of, of, of a mountain Ridge, kind of a thing. We're heading down right on the coast. And there's this little seaside village. Couldn't even tell you what the name of the village was.

And she finds this highly rated. You know, restaurant and we're sitting outside and a Piazza for lunch. And you know, my boys are all adventurous eaters. And so we're, you know, we're like making sure we're getting different things for, you know, appetizers and lunch and this and that. And my oldest, after a couple of bites, he [00:53:00] goes, is it possible that the Italians do food even better than the French?

We all just start laughing. We're like, I think it is like, sorry, if you're a French food fan, like I'm a French food fan too. Like French is. Awesome. But I was like, dude, this Italian food was just out of control. So good. And, um, and so just the whole moment was like this, you know, like we're, we're driving, we're in Europe together as a family, you know, it's the summer before my oldest son's senior year in high school.

And so we're just having these, these memories, right. And then, you know, we find this little. You know, restaurant sit outside and it's just like the perfectly quintessential like sit outside on the Piazza. Okay, cool Like that's what people do and and I remember, you know this like afterwards I asked the server, you know Hey, where's a good place to go nearby for espresso?

she just looks at me like Uh, everywhere, you know, like, okay, so we found a gelato [00:54:00] place. And so I go next door to this little cafe and I order an espresso. And by the way, Northern Italian espresso is lighter roasted, which is my preference anyways, the further South you go in Italy, allegedly I've not.

I've only been to Italy for lunch, Andrew, happened to be Northern Italy, uh, but the further South you go in Italy, the darker roasted the espresso gets. That's where the traditional Italian roast kind of comes from is that darker, you know, further South. Anyway, Northern Italy, lighter roasted, more flavor, my opinion, uh, the type of espresso I prefer.

So I order a shot and you know, I'm sipping in my ceramic cause I'm, I'm enjoying the moment and I took a sip and I just looked at the barista and I just was like. Respect, man, that was a great, it was so good. I ordered another one so that my wife, I was like, you have to have this. Like, I don't care if you don't finish it.

I will like, it's that good. So, um, that whole experience was just pretty magical. Sounds like it. Yeah. Yeah. And we had, we had already been in, in Europe a couple of weeks. So I was like super detox from all the crazy hustle bustle. It was just like, we're just in the [00:55:00] moment. We're just

hanging, you know,

Andrew Camp: and finally, there's a conversation among chefs about last meals. And so as in, if you knew you only had one last meal to enjoy, what would it be? And so for Nate, what. If you knew you only had one last meal to enjoy, what might that meal entail and include?

Nate Westwick: Yeah, so, um, it would 100 percent have to include scallops.

Okay. It would 100 percent have to include a really great red wine. Um, I'm not super picky with which types of red wine as long as it's flavorful and yummy, so it kind of depends on the mood I'm in. And, you know, it would absolutely have to involve my family. Um, You know, I was thinking about, um, you know, the, the, the, one of my favorite meals I've had, Andrew was when Laurel and I had dinner with you and Claire at silver and what made it so special wasn't just the food.

It was that we had two and a half hours, three hours, whatever it was to just linger at the table and talk and we hadn't seen each other for a [00:56:00] few years. And, and I think about like. I can eat a good meal solo, but it doesn't taste as good. Like there's, the experience is missing. So if it's last meal, I wouldn't, if I were eating my last meal alone, it wouldn't, it would, no matter what was in front of me, the whole meal would suck.

Yeah. But if I could have my family with me, if it's my last meal, like if I'm getting executed tomorrow, like, dude, give me PB& J, as long as my family's there. Right. Um. Maybe PB and J, you know, I mean, if there's an option for scallops, a nice red wine, like let's go with that instead. But yeah, but, but scallops, man, there's something about scallops.

It just get me so excited.

Andrew Camp: That's fair. Awesome. Yeah. Well, Nate, this has been super fun and it's always fun to connect with you and just really appreciate your friendship. And if people want to get in touch with you, not only about coffee, but about your book, um, where can they find you?

Nate Westwick: Yeah. So on Instagram, I'm Nathan dot Westwick.

[00:57:00] Pretty sure. Yeah. Okay. I'm not the biggest social media guy. I think it's Nathan dot Westwick. Let's go with that. And um, and uh, yeah, Wild Goose Coffee dot com. We also have an Instagram Wild Goose Coffee. You're asking how people can get in touch with me. Those are probably the best two ways, right? My book's on Amazon, but if you find me on Instagram, there's a link there too.

Gotcha. Yeah. I don't know. I, I'm, I'm a social guy and sometimes. Somewhat intentionally reclusive,

Andrew Camp: yes,

Nate Westwick: you can hit me up on instagram. That's a

Andrew Camp: good way to do it. Yeah, instagram. Um, and do check out Wild Goose Coffee dot com. Um, you know, and do take advantage of, of the promotion code code. Do take advantage of the promotion code table to receive 20 percent off one order.

Um, so Nate really do appreciate you joining me today. Um, and thanks for joining us on this episode of The Biggest Table, where we explore what it means to be transformed by God's love around the table and through food. Until next time. Bye.[00:58:00]