The Biggest Table

Episode 48 (Nancy Neal)
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Andrew Camp: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Biggest Table. I'm your host, Andrew Camp, and in this podcast we explore the table, food, eating and hospitality as an arena for experiencing God's love and our love for one another.

And today I'm joined by Nancy Neal.

Reverend Nancy Neal is the Minister for Spiritual Formation and Wellness at Bread for the World. She leads an initiative to build a culture at Bread that is grounded in prayer and worship, biblical principles, core values, learning and wellness.

She has led the organizational efforts around diversity, equity, inclusion, and justice, collaborating with organizations and consultants to train and coach staff and leadership and racial equity principles and practices that have impacted internal culture, policy analysis, organizing strategies, and resource development.

Throughout her career, Neal has sought to build bridges across cultures and contribute to repairing brokenness in our society and our institutions. Whether that's working for antis, sweatshop, or anti-hunger organizations, advocating for women in the Presbyterian church, implementing [00:01:00] anti-racist, anti-oppression practices, bringing together young clergy across political divides or even waiting tables.

Neal began Bread in 2011, serving in various positions in the former church relations department, including associate for denominational women's organization relations, deputy director, inter interim director and director. She's a minister member of National Capital Presbyter. She has served as parish associate and temporary supply pastor of churches in the greater Washington DC metro area, and currently serves on leadership council, ministry relations team, and the board of the Washington DC site of the Presbyterian Church Young Adult volunteer in mission program.

She completed her undergraduate studies at Clemson University in South Carolina and earned her Master of Divinity at Union Theological Seminary in New York.

So thanks for joining me today, Nancy. Really excited, uh, to connect with you and have this conversation.

Nancy Neal: Great. Thanks to, it's great to be here.

Thanks for having me [00:02:00] on the podcast.

Andrew Camp: Yeah. So what, when you think of your relationship with food tables, you said you wait tables, like when you think of food and the table, like what, what's your story?

Nancy Neal: Yeah. Um, waiting tables was one of my favorite gigs of all times. Um, I always loved to be around people and get to know new people, and there's something just holy, I think about serving, um, food, particularly as a, as a server.

And, um, I grew up in South Carolina in a family that had dinner together every night. Um, we were always, uh, required to be at the table unless we were at work. Um, and, uh, I grew up in the church, um, was always sort of the last, last one to be leaving. Uh, church. My family was always like, when are you gonna be ready to leave?

I was always there chitchatting with everybody. And so this sense of like, food and table and community and church and [00:03:00] fellowship and communion all just sort of ran together for me, uh, growing up. Um, I remember, uh, sermons from the pulpit when I was a kid about the, our neighbors who were really struggling with hunger and poverty, who were having trouble paying bills, getting medical care, having trouble, like getting food on their table and our pastor talking about how we as a church were, uh, responsible for caring for our neighbors who were struggling.

And those stories like really stuck with me growing up.

Andrew Camp: What, what do you find holy about waiting tables? Because I, my background is in the back of the house as a, as a chef, you know, where I didn't have to deal with unruly customers, you know, and like, we would look at some tickets and be like, I wait, you want a well done steak and you're gonna complain it's dry.

Like, like, yeah. So like for me, like, you know, waiting tables that, you know, there's a special call to that, you know, and what you know. But I love that you said, you know, you see it [00:04:00] as a holy experience. Like what, what about it was holy for you?

Nancy Neal: For me, yeah. I, I don't know what it is and maybe it's my growing up in the south, but there's something about hospitality for me that is holy and, and a huge part of that is serving food and serving.

Yeah. Others and making sure that people's needs are taken care of. I see it in scripture. Um, you know, when Jesus fed the multitudes, when Jesus gathered with the disciples at the end of John, um, when he feeds them breakfast over, over, um, charcoal fire with fifth and bread. And so this idea of caring for one another, just, I even when you're like at a, a restaurant and people are kind of snarky and, you know, not very nice about the food or whatever, I just still, there's something about like just bringing the dish out and, and serving them.

That just feels really special that you're providing for someone in that way. [00:05:00] You know, also, I mean, there's other places to serve. I used to have a monthly potluck here at my house and I would, um, just invite folks to come together and I spent most of the time always like, just sort of making sure everybody had food and was scared for and stuff.

And there's just something very. Special about that, um mm-hmm. For me. And that there's just this grace, you know, of like, this way of extending grace even when people are, you know, annoying or Yeah. Or, you know, complaining or whatever. But to be able to like, have conversation, maybe learn their story a little bit.

Mm-hmm. And to share this food, um, you know, just was a, always a bright spot for me.

Andrew Camp: Do you have a specific memory from waiting tables that you're like, sort of is, you know, grounded, you know, etched in your memory that like you can still, you still recall as you think about hospitality and serving?

Nancy Neal: Um, uh, there's two memories of like, really challenging moments.[00:06:00]

Um, one is I was, I worked at a coffee shop and I, um, was, I waited tables at lunch and this homeless person came in and. Well, I, I guess we don't even know if they were homeless, but this person came in that was clearly like disheveled and not ordering anything. And sort of the assumption was they were sort of living on the street and, and my boss went to kick them out and I wanted to let them stay.

I just remember this, like this whole conversation and the struggle with like, how do you care for your neighbor? And also not turn your coffee shop into like a place where, where you drive away business. How do you Yeah. Balance the like, okay, we have to make this a like clean, healthy spot for people to come in and we have to keep business and make money and serve, and then how do we like, take care of our neighbors in a, in a, in a, in a, you know, dignified manner.

Yeah. And so those two were really a struggle for me, like holding that tension. [00:07:00] And I think that's the tension that I've lived in. So often in my life of like, how do we do this?

And then one time I, I just, I did a great job. I waited this table and I got this couple came in and I just, I felt like I just clicked with them and we had a really great kind of evening together. And then when I got the check, they left me like a $2 tip. And I just remember being like, crushed. So like we had this lovely evening of, of like banter and fun and I was really intentional about bringing them their food and that it, that they enjoyed it and they got everything that they needed. And I had taken such good care of them and, and then they left me a $2 tip and I was like, well, such is life.

Andrew Camp: Yeah.

Nancy Neal: Good thing I enjoyed this.

Andrew Camp: Yes. No, I love that story about like, you know, when you're thinking of this disheveled man and how do we care for our neighbors while also caring. [00:08:00] For, you know, the flock too. You know, I think there's a correlation. Mm-hmm. You know, like this tension you said you live in, and I'm sure that tension comes up as you're, as you pastor of like, okay, how do I, how do I care for the, and fight for injustice while also ministering and discipling and meeting the needs of, of a flock.

And so like, as you think about your life, you know, how, how is that tension working out? And like, because I, I'm sure we all feel it, of like, okay, I have a family I need to care for, protect my family, but I also have a call to care for the poor and the needy. Mm-hmm. You know, and so I think it, it, it applies to all of us.

And so like how, help, help the listeners help me. Like what, where have you found some clarity in that tension and where, what, how do you still hold it? Mm-hmm.

Nancy Neal: I, I honestly feel like I'm miserable at it. Like. Just on Sunday, a woman came in to the church, like at the end of the service [00:09:00] she came in and, um, she didn't have a place to stay.

And I'm sort of new to that community in Oxen Hill. And, and so I didn't know at all what resources to offer her. And we don't have like a pastors to like fund for things like that 'cause we're such a small church. And, and we had lunch after church every Sunday. So they packed up a bunch of food and drinks for her and sent her on her way.

And I'm like Googling where to send her to like, find a shelter and find a space or find somewhere that they could give her money for the night. And, and, um, I, I think, you know, I think we just have to live with the fact that sometimes we're just gonna not get it perfect.

Andrew Camp: Mm-hmm. And

Nancy Neal: we're gonna do the best we can and try to be graceful on ourselves and graceful on the other people and figure out what our capacities are and what they're, and be clear about what they're not.

So, um. I don't know that I handled it well. Uh, but I think that part of the challenge of [00:10:00] living and in this moment of being, and part of the challenge of wellness is how do we live in the space of, of doing enough? Um, you know, and I think some of the burnout that my colleagues at Bread face, um, is trying to figure out what's enough and we kind of push and drive ourselves to like constantly pay attention to the news and constantly be trying to figure out a strategy.

And then in the face of like seeing the big beautiful Bill Pass and the Rescissions Pass and to see that kind of is a loss and how do we hold that tension and still take care of ourselves and still understand that like we are being faithful to this call. Um, to work, to care for our neighbors. Um, how do we in the local context, like how do we, um, you know, make sure we're contributing to [00:11:00] the food bank and food pantry and make sure that we're staffing the food pantry in our neighborhood or our community and, and holding that tension of like, we can't do it all.

And like, and there's a bigger power at work, right? That we can trust that God is moving in all of this and that we just have to keep going. Mm-hmm. And being faithful while finding that time to like refresh and rebalance and reconnect with our families and with our communities and with ourselves to do the exercise we need and do the move, get the movement, and take care of our nutrition and take care of our emotions and let them flow through and not try to like push them off to the sides.

Andrew Camp: Um,

Nancy Neal: it's a hard tension.

Andrew Camp: It is. Um,

Nancy Neal: and that's the practice, right? That's a practice. And I think that's a practice in many ways of resistance to the culture that wants us to push to be perfect and to do all the things and to burn ourselves out to, to gain our sense of worth [00:12:00] by being enough. And, and there's just not ever gonna be enough.

No. So how do we stay in a place of like grace in a place where we trust that we are created in God's image and likeness and all of our neighbors are created in God's image and likeness and hold that inherent dignity? How do we hold that for ourselves and our family and our immediate community? And then for folks even just further out and around the world, um, if we can ground ourselves there, I think that gives us more capacity to move and do more in the world.

Andrew Camp: No, for sure. And like, I love that question of what is enough and 'cause like, I can't answer that question for you. Like we can be in dialogue and discernment together and you can't answer it for me, but like, I think, you know, discerning together what is enough, um, and that it changes over from day to day, maybe week to week, month to seasons, like Yeah.

You know, um, for sure. [00:13:00] You know, and, and to then be gentle, like you said, with ourselves, like, and to give ourselves grace. Mm-hmm. You know? Mm-hmm. Is, is so vital. Um mm-hmm. You know, and, uh, my wife and I, the book keeps coming up because, you know, I guess it's applicable today, but my wife and I have been rereading Reaching Out by Henry Nouwen, which is, just read it.

Oh, you, you need to yeah. Add it to your list. Nodding it. Yeah. Not that we all need more books to read, but like, you know, he talks about the three movements of the spiritual life of, you know, from loneliness to solitude. From hostility to hospitality and then from, um, illusion to prayer. Um, but it's sort of, uh, these movements, but like he's talks about loneliness and this move from loneliness to solitude and that like, until we're able to be centered in ourselves and alone with ourselves, we can't actually be an advocate for the world.

Mm-hmm. That like, it will all just be striving and, you know, uh, [00:14:00] but to mm-hmm. You know, be grounded in, like you said, to be grounded in who we are mm-hmm. And allows us to then reach out mm-hmm. You know, and create a space, you know, that hospitable space, um, you know, where hospitality is more than just setting the table, but that creation of a free space Yeah.

For others to flourish.

Nancy Neal: Yeah. Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. I think that, that, um, it just made me really think about our work at Bread for World. Um. Uh, which is a Christian advocacy organization working to, uh, encourage our elected leaders to do what they can to end hunger. And so, um, we invite churches around the country to write letters to Congress and to develop relationships with their members of Congress to be able to influence how they vote on, on policies related to hunger.

And so I think of that, um, when you sort of [00:15:00] frame it that way and talk about these movements from loneliness of solitude, hostility to hospitality, illusion to prayer. In some ways, I feel like this work of advocacy is an act of hospitality. It is an act of like ensuring that our neighbors have enough to eat in sort of a broader, bigger scale.

Um, because we can, we can, we just can't. Food pantry and food bank our way to an end of hunger here in the us and. You know, there are lots of, you know, we can't sponsor a child sponsor children or sponsor child sponsor our way out of hunger around the world. And, and so all of those programs are critical and they're important and they're super important acts of faith of the church.

But when we think on a broader scale and the capacity of the federal government with this huge, uh, you know, budget, that just [00:16:00] a small portion of it goes to, to caring for our neighbors and ensuring that our neighbors have enough to eat so they too can thrive and flourish.

Andrew Camp: No, for sure. Because I, um, you know, your podcast is coming on the heels of Jeremy Everetts and he, um, had this quote that he shared from FDR, who's like, he says, you know, that our policy shouldn't be about what we do for the, the richest, but what our policy does for the least of these, and I'm paraphrasing it, it's a great quote.

Mm-hmm. You know, America, you know, and he was basically saying, America's at its best when we, when we advocate for, for the disenfranchised, for um mm-hmm. Those people under the yoke of oppression. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, and that's, that's what Bread for the World is doing. And so for listeners who aren't super familiar, can you give us a little background of what, of who, what Bread for the World is, you know mm-hmm.

What, yeah. What you're all about.

Nancy Neal: Yeah. So we started, uh, just 50 years ago. Um, [00:17:00] Art Simon was a, uh, Lutheran pastor in New York City, in the Lower East Side. And they had a food pantry in his church, and they would, he would go out and greet folks every, every time they hosted it. And he would just find that the need just was continued to be there again and again.

And, um. And so he kind of got together with some clergy around town and they thought, well, what can we do to really address the root causes of this hunger that we're seeing in front of us? It's just not getting better. And, um, his brother was a member of Congress and so they were inspired to, you know, leverage their, uh, voices to, um, to lobby congress about hunger issues.

And so we've been working for 50 years on important program, you know, getting past important legislation, um, around, you know, the resolution to about a right to food, that everyone has a right to food. We've worked on WIC and SNAP Forever on [00:18:00] international assistance. Um, and, and the way that we operate is that we work with churches around the country to really foster relationships with their members too.

Uh, you know, to write letters, to build these relationships and to say, you know, this is important to us and our community, and this is what we see when we go on international mission trips, and this is what we see when we go on local mission trips. This is what we see in our food pantries, and we believe that, um, you know, our faith tells us that is important to care for our neighbors.

And so we would ask you to pass legislation that would care for our neighbors. And sometimes we get a lot done and sometimes we're in sort of defense mode. And right now we're, we're a little bit more in defense mode and trying to protect the programs that have been around for many, many decades. And the work has been largely bipartisan for, for a long time, although it's gotten a lot more politicized in in recent decades probably.[00:19:00]

Um, I joined Bright in 2011 and I think we just started to see a little bit before that, just a really deep politicization of programs. Of alignment on in, in past decades. Mm-hmm. Like SNAP and WIC and international assistance we're always, uh, programs that got support.

Andrew Camp: Um, no, I appreciate that. And it's cool, you know, 50 years, like years, that's, that, you know, that's a testimony, you know, a testament to, to the work, um, and to what you guys are about. Um, and why do you feel like, 'cause some, I've heard it said in some Christian circles where like, oh, if the church just stepped up and did its part, we, we don't need, we wouldn't need the government to advocate mm-hmm.

You know, for this. Like, why, but what other people have pointed out that food is, is a political issue. Mm-hmm. And so like, why mm-hmm. Why [00:20:00] do churches need to advocate mm-hmm. You know, their local leaders and their, you know, national leaders to to mm-hmm. To fight for this.

Nancy Neal: Yeah, I think it's a capacity issue.

Honestly. We used to have this graphic that showed like how many, if you looked at all the food assistance through federal government and local food pantries and food banks and all this stuff, and the graphic was like a set of 10 grocery bags, and of them something like eight or nine came from federal sources.

And so, um, the capacity there in these programs is just greater than, like, the churches can't handle that. There's just no, no way that the churches can handle it. Um, we just can't fill those gaps. Even, you know, and we've seen the church get smaller in recent decades and, and that churches are strained and my little church is struggling.

We'd send a thousand dollars to the [00:21:00] food pantry every year, and we collect donations regularly and take them over. Um, but I just recently heard that 50% of Prince George's County residents are at risk of food insecurity, and that's just outside of Washington DC and a lot of that is related to the layoffs of the federal government.

Um, and so you have 50% of your county at risk of food insecurity. I mean, the food pantries are, are really strained. You know, our food pantry was serving about 80 people a week. They've been up to a hundred, 120. And they, um, they wanna add a second day in the, in the week to be, be able to. You know, actually it's once a month and then they wanna add a second day in the month to, to try to address the growing need with, um, so it's, it's a huge challenge that the church just [00:22:00] literally doesn't have capacity.

Andrew Camp: No. Yeah. And like the 50% of this county just outside of Washington, DC that's has the potential for food insecurity. Like, that's, that's insane. Like mm-hmm. Um, mm-hmm. You know, um, you know, and I've heard in, you know, I'm in Flagstaff, Arizona and have talked to our local food bank, and they've seen sort of an exponential rise in the amount of people they're serving, um mm-hmm.

You know, and mm-hmm. Even before COVID and since COVID, like, it's not gotten any easier or better. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, and so they're, yeah. Um. But they're also realizing that being a food bank's not enough. And so how do we, you know, get to the root causes and how do we actually work towards alleviating hunger?

Mm-hmm. Um, is, is part of the importance, uh, you know, and Bread for the World's tagline is , we can end hunger in our time. Mm-hmm. [00:23:00] Uh, which that's a, you know, I think, was it, you know, Jim Collins used to say like, it's a big audacious goal, or whatever. Mm-hmm. A big hairy, audacious goal, you know, the book, you know, that I remember.

Um, but you know, like, so that's a big goal. Like what, what gives you hope, you know, maybe personally, but also, you know, as the organization, Bread for the World, that this is a solvable issue.

Nancy Neal: Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, um,

it's, I believe it's solvable. And, but the challenge is that we don't have the political will to solve it.

Andrew Camp: Right.

Nancy Neal: And, um, because we make, we produce enough food on the planet to feed everybody.

Andrew Camp: Yeah.

Nancy Neal: We have the capacity to do it. We just don't have the political will to do it. Mm-hmm. One of the most important one, one thing that happened during the pandemic is that the child tax credit [00:24:00] was made to be, uh, was distributed monthly instead of like as a one large sum lump sum at the end of the year.

And that like 45% of children. Who were in poverty were moved out of poverty for that time. Like they found that families spent that money on, on groceries, and that it really sustained people and moved people from like, being at risk to hunger, to not being hungry. And, and so there are programs like that, like this tax credit, that could significantly improve the, the people's quality of life and give children access to food to be able to thrive in school and do better in school.

Um, to, to invest really that it's, it's an investment in our future by providing these programs. Um, it's an investment in our future by providing support internationally to these programs.[00:25:00]

Because we've seen so much success and we've seen since the 1990s such a, an increase, you know, such a reduction in poverty an an increase in access to food. We know that it's possible to get there. Um, you know, we've had setbacks with the pandemic and with decisions that Congress has made and, um, but we know that it is possible.

Andrew Camp: Yeah.

Nancy Neal: Scientifically. Yeah.

Andrew Camp: Is that tax credit, that child tax credit, monthly payments, are those still happening? Or was that rescinded? Like what, what came of, what came of that?

Nancy Neal: Yeah, it happened. It expired. Um, okay. The, the program expired and it went back to the lump sum. Right. And then in the recent bill, the, like, the who qualifies for it has been reduced.

And so fewer people have to either the full amount or the amount at all.

Andrew Camp: Wow. Like. [00:26:00] But there was evidence that this moved and helped society mm-hmm. And moved families from food insecurity to maybe food security. Mm-hmm. Like, and, but we don't want to continue that. Like what? Like, yeah. W why, why, why give, why, why stay hopeful then, like, you know, that's,

Nancy Neal: yeah.

I mean, that's such a good question. Um,

I am a sucker and I believe it's possible for people to change. This is me personally. Yeah. Like, I really believe that, that, that God can change hearts.

Andrew Camp: Right. Um,

Nancy Neal: it is heartbreaking to see when it doesn't happen, but, but I do believe that change is possible and. I believe that God has something better in store for us in this world, and that we are not in charge of the [00:27:00] outcomes we're in charge of, of taking the actions that we're called to take.

And so, you know, we see this vision, we see the possibility of the world. We've seen, you know, our elders have seen this, you know, this transition that's happened since the nineties. Um, and you know, in the, they established some millennium development goals in the year 2000 to try to assess how do you do, how do you measure the effect of development so that it is like having a positive impact on people's lives.

And they set out for these millennium development goals. And in 2015 they passed the sustainable development goals that take us to 2030. And when they lined out those sustainable development goals, ending hunger is one of them. And, um, and so. Based on the research, we can, we can really be able to, um, to do it.

And we know that, you know, in the, in scriptures we see Jesus [00:28:00] feeding people all over the place. Yeah. And we know that that's what God wants and what God longs for. And I think we can pray and we can take action. Um, we can use our voices to speak up, um, to, to end hunger. And part of that is by, by calling our members of Congress and telling them that it's important to us because members of Congress listen to their constituents because those are the people that elect them.

And sometimes it maybe feels like they aren't listening and they're not doing what we're asking them to do. That's why we gotta call all of our friends and we have to have all of us together collectively, um, reaching out to our members of Congress and telling them what's really important and finding those like.

Big donors and influential people and bringing them along and building relationships to bring the, to build the power to have that influence

Andrew Camp: in our system. No, and it is a, you know, collective work that we all have to engage in, you know? Mm-hmm. Uh, [00:29:00] you know, not all of us are called to advocate for hunger, you know?

Mm-hmm. Um, we all have different passions and in the mm-hmm. In line with how God created us to be, but like, even ending hunger, like it's gonna take multiple organizations, multiple, everybody working together collectively to figure out how do we do this? Uh, you know? Yeah. And, um, yeah, no, no one organization can do it by themselves.

Yeah. But spread for the world has, you know, you, on your website, you have these letter writing campaigns or processes. Mm-hmm. Like you have resources available to help people. Like what? Yeah. What are those resources like, you know, help us. 'cause you know, I think a lot of us are realizing we can advocate in some small way, and so mm-hmm.

But even just a script to help goes a long way. Yeah,

Nancy Neal: for sure. I'll share two things that I think are really helpful. One is that prayer is super important. We believe in prayer because [00:30:00] we're Christian and prayer, prayer is foundational for us at Bread for the World. And so we have an email subscription you can get every two weeks or so that, um, called Prayers and Hunger, and you can join us in prayer.

Um, and our staff gathers every Monday. We, just this afternoon at noon Eastern Time, gathered online and gathered for prayer together. So we start our week as a staff in prayer. So prayer is super important. I think we're all praying in the same direction about ending hunger. We have more capacity to, to make that change.

The other thing that we do is we invite churches and individuals to write letters. And so if you go to our website, you can learn about the offering of letters. Um, and we see this using our voice as an offering to God as a spiritual practice of articulating what we believe, why this is important to our faith and, and why, how we wanna care for our neighbors.

And so, um, [00:31:00] you can visit our website and you can just write a letter yourself if you wanna just take action. Um, or you can gather your community together, whether that's your church or your. Book group or your spin class or whatever you can gather together, um, uh, and write letters, um, to your member of Congress together.

And we always encourage people to pray over those letters, even if you write them electronically to like, you know, send them and then just do a little prayer over all the letters to, you know, just to give God thanks for, for having the voice and for having the capacity to write, um, and for giving us these tools to write, to be able to join together collectively.

Um, there's something just powerful in gathering and, and doing this together. And I think, you know, part of the challenge of this moment is that we can be so separated and pulled in so many different directions. And [00:32:00] one of the things that sustains us and gives us hope and sort of protects us from cynicism is being together and gathering together.

And so coming together to write these letters coming together to pray, um, is an important tool in the, in, in and making this work sustainable.

Andrew Camp: No, for sure.

Nancy Neal: You want our website, it's

Andrew Camp: bread.org/pray.

Nancy Neal: We'll get you to the, um, to the prayers and then bread.org/ol for offering of letters. We'll get you to the, the offering of letters page.

Andrew Camp: Yep. And we'll make sure that those are in, in the, in the show notes so people, you know, if you're interested, please look at the show notes. Those websites will be there. So you can just click right there. Uh, but yeah, no, the help and, and you, you mentioned, you know, coming together and doing it as a community just helps guard against cynicism.

Um, you know, I think many of us can feel alone or like I'm the only one that [00:33:00] cares. Um. Mm-hmm. But even, you know, shortly after the election, um, I emailed, you know, the pastor of the church I was at, and I was like, Hey, have you heard of any other people that are worried about, you know, the state of politics or just, you know, worried about what is happening?

Mm-hmm. And he gave me a list of names and we get together maybe once a month just to check in with each other. Oh, that's so great. Yeah. You know, and it's just sort of, you know, both like, Hey, this is what's happening in Flagstaff. Like, you know, um, but also like, Hey, how's your soul? Like how are you staying engaged?

Mm-hmm. Um, you know, and it's, it's been really helpful, like just to mm-hmm. Have that group and, you know, one, it helps me stay engaged, um mm-hmm. But then also knows, okay, I have these people that I can rely on, uh mm-hmm. You know, and we're not all. Passionate about the same, but we're, you know, just like you said, the community aspect is so vital.

Mm-hmm. Um, during this time.

Nancy Neal: Yeah. Yeah. [00:34:00] I think it's, and in my role of Minister for Spirit performance and Wellness, I always have a mouthful of a title. Yeah. It seems Fred. Um, but I think that's part of what we're trying to do both for our staff to find ways to, like, the pandemic just was such a hard time 'cause we're all so far away and when we're doing this really hard work and like, and the weeds on this, and when the, you know, the new administration came in, there was so much activity going on and people were just pushing, pushing, pushing.

And we,

Andrew Camp: we were

Nancy Neal: like, okay, how do we. Help people realize this is a marathon and not a sprint. Right. That this is like, we kind of keep going, but we also have to take breaks and rest and care for ourselves and care for one another. That, that, um, you know, we found, we did a little question with staff about like, well, how did you feel cared for?

And in any places where you've worked? And people just said, when my, when my colleagues [00:35:00] remembered important things about me or checked in on me or offered to help do a thing, and I, I just thought, you know, that's not hard. We can check in on our neighbors and we can check in on our friends and we can offer to help when, when they're clearly struggling or, you know, and it just seems like so simple.

Uh, an answer that coming together in community in this time when we just are so pulled in so many different directions and, you know, on our screens all day long. Yeah.

Andrew Camp: The doom scroll is not a good, um, wellness activity for, for any of us. It's not.

Nancy Neal: No. And I catch myself doing it. I'm just like, what am I doing?

Yeah. I used to be like, I used to watch too much television, watch television. I was like, yay, I watch this television. I was like, no, I'm doom scrolling. Like through my, you know, I'm just on my phone instead of a big screen. So,

Andrew Camp: yeah. So for Nancy, like how does your care for your soul look like? [00:36:00] Like what is your.

Yeah. What have you found restorative? Um, you know, you've been with Bread for the World now for almost 15 years, um, so Ly Yeah. So how have, how have you maintained hope and, um, what practices sustain? Mm-hmm. You mm-hmm.

Nancy Neal: Yeah. You know, I always really struggled, um, with trying to keep a regular daily practice of anything.

Um, and I was part of a group and we developed these rules of life and as I was, I had developed this rule of life and my friends were like, that doesn't sound like you. And I was like, daily this, daily that, monthly this. And like, that doesn't sound like you at all. And so I finally had to just kind of figure out where did I find God in the things that I do during the day?

Like what are the, what are the places? And to just do those things more. Yeah. And so I found that like walking through my neighborhood Park Arts and Run Park, I found that was [00:37:00] really. Meaningful for me. And so I started practicing that pretty regularly. I'm, I'm not as good about that right now, but, um, you know, I found that exercise was really meaningful for me, that I just really enjoyed it.

And so just trying to lean into that. And, you know, one of the things I learned during the pandemic is just stare out the window. Like watch the trees and the birds and the, like, whatever is happening, just stare out the window. And so these practices, my, my current practice is to move slowly in the mornings and I try to journal, read a little bit, and journal and, um, drink my coffee and just do, just move slowly to just give myself a little ease and space to start my day.

And then I, I find that my day is less insane when I do that. And so just trying to connect with God, connect with myself, you know, pet my cat.

Andrew Camp: Yep.

Nancy Neal: You know, important. Um, and then as a preacher, I find. [00:38:00] Honestly, I find preaching like it's work. It's a lot of work to do, but the, just the engagement of scripture and the regular writing is just really helpful for me in terms of a spiritual practice and like, just the insights that I gain from scripture, you know, as I'm praying about what I'm gonna say on Sunday morning.

It's just been really, uh, a helpful practice. I also have a therapist, which I've been a spiritual director, so I highly recommend those practices, um, to like ground ground us. And I, I've found really great people to accompany me in this journey and, and so that, those have been really incredibly meaningful for me.

Andrew Camp: No, I appreciate you sharing that. Just, you know, 'cause again, not every practice works the same for people, but to hear what is working, you know, and what restores your soul can be helpful, um, yeah. To us as we figure out, okay, what, where. You know, like, just your question of where did I find God and what I [00:39:00] did today, like what, where did I find a little, where my shoulders relaxed a little, maybe even, you know, Uhhuh.

Yeah. You know, I think for me sometimes, like we, we have like a little, it's called the duck pond just because there's ducks, but like, I've sometimes found, like after I drop my kids off at the bus or like just to walk around that, you know, pond with my, you know, pour over coffee just to like uhhuh, you know, I can see some mountains, you know, like, it's just a, like, like you said, it slows me down a little bit, just like Okay.

You know? Yeah. Um, before I tackle what's ahead, like I'm just gonna walk. Yeah. Uh, you know, sounds

Nancy Neal: very relaxing.

Andrew Camp: Yeah.

Nancy Neal: Ducks and mountains and water and coffee. Like all of my favorite.

Andrew Camp: Yeah. No, I we're fortunate to live in a beautiful place in a forest, you know, and so Uhhuh, um, I realize that's not available to everyone, but, um, yeah, it's, you know, but like you said, even just looking [00:40:00] outside, you know, like I think there have been studies that have shown just even having a window to the outside uhhuh and being able to look outside can be a restorative practice.

Nancy Neal: Yeah. Um,

Andrew Camp: yeah. And,

Nancy Neal: well, I, my neighborhood is, I like to say that my park is where like bike share bikes and scooters. Yeah. Um, come to die. And so I say that because it's not the prettiest kind of cleanest park. Right. And my practice is really to like, find the little places of beauty

Andrew Camp: Yeah.

Nancy Neal: In my walk because it's not, it's a little junky sometimes.

And so just the water is really high today or these beautiful little flowers. And sometimes I just take pictures to like capture these like little small spaces of beauty. And so I think, I think anywhere, even if we don't have the, like, beautiful trees or the beautiful mountains or the, there's beauty in like every space and trying to find that [00:41:00] as we move through.

Right. And that slowing down and being really present in this moment I think is, is that is what that is. Um, yeah. I love the, um, you know there's a Tick not Han book. I'm looking at my bookshelves over here.

Andrew Camp: Yeah.

Nancy Neal: Um. And I can't remember what it's called. I, I don't even know if I can find it, but he talks about the challenge of this father to find time for himself during the day.

And he was talking about, I have to be with my kid and I have to work and I have to run around. I have all these things to do. And he basically was like, every moment is your moment, whether it's doing something for someone else or doing something for yourself. Each moment that you have in life is your time.

And you, if you show up and are present, even when you're having to do all these other things, being present in this like one moment can relieve that feeling of like, I'm doing all these things for other people and never, but being present is somehow helpful in [00:42:00] Yeah, in um, in, in making our time hours that every moment is our time, no matter what we're doing.

And I found that super helpful to just, you know, yeah. Um, just figure out how to be present in each moment. Yeah. Um,

Andrew Camp: no, I love that. Yeah. Just because like you said, we may not have three hours to spend contemplating, you know, but we can't be present. Right? Like, I can be present with my girls tonight, you know, when they come back, you know, and uhhuh find a little joy.

Um mm-hmm. You know, but that does require, again, a groundedness. And I think it goes back to even saying like, okay, what is enough? Like what, what am I, what is my capacity today? Mm-hmm. Um, you know? Mm-hmm. And to be graceful and gentle, um, with ourselves. Yeah, for sure. To switch gears a little, I'm curious, like, you know, as, 'cause this is super helpful, but then [00:43:00] to what issues are we seeing related to hunger that like, listeners should be aware of that like mm-hmm.

You know, um, the big beautiful bill, I don't know if we would call it beautiful past, um Right. But we're gonna fa see new challenges, like what. What are the issues surrounding hunger that we are currently facing that listeners can just be made aware of? Um mm-hmm. To think through.

Nancy Neal: Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, we're really looking to, um, we're kind of looking at a lot of things right now.

Yeah. Um, one of those things is, is, um, WIC and there's a bill that's about, um, improving wic. Um, W WIC is the supplemental nutrition program for women, infants and children. Um, it's available for, it provides, uh, nutrition assistance for women who are pregnant through the, the children's fifth birthday. Um, and so it, it, [00:44:00] what they're trying to do to make that process easier is, is to be able to do tele televisits with doctors to get some of the approvals and things moved along.

Um, when you don't have a lot of money and you maybe don't have a car. You have to take a work to go to the doctor. It makes it really challenging. And so being able to do some of those by, um, video is a really helpful tool. And so we're, we're kind of pushing for the improvement that, I think it's the WIC Modernization Act.

Andrew Camp: Okay. Um,

Nancy Neal: we're working, um, on the Farm Bill, it continues to be an important bill and so there's a skinny farm bill coming through that may or may not move through and get passed. The Farm Bill gets is a huge piece of legislation that gets reauthorized every seven years. And so we are about two, maybe three years behind.

Some of that work got done in the, in the, um, a beautiful bill, the reconciliation bill. Um, and so some of the funding got cut and the levels [00:45:00] got cut for snap. Um, but some of the other programs we're watching there. Um. Uh, so, you know, we're just trying to look at legislation from the, the lenses of sustainability and equity and, um, and nutrition and trying to focus in those ways.

Um, and I think, you know, just trying to protect, um, global nutrition programs of what we have left. Um, uh, in the, in the, um, what are the bills? The, sorry, I'm blanking, all of a sudden, um, in the budget bills. Um, so watching the budget and how the budget is, uh, is, is planning out and just paying attention to funding levels for WIC and SNAP and international nutrition programs in particular.

Andrew Camp: Where can we find information so we don't have to cull through millions of pages of bills [00:46:00] that

Nancy Neal: you know? Oh, yes. Go to our website. Yeah. Uh, so right now our ask, we're asking our senators and representatives to fully fund and strengthen the special supplemental nutrition program for women infants and children wic and to protect and provide robust funding for food aid and global nutrition programs.

So, I got it right?

Andrew Camp: Yes, you did.

Nancy Neal: So, um, but to, to find that, if you go to our website, red.org/act. Okay. But if you just click on act on the front page, red.org, um, it will take you to the capacity to, to a place where you can write a letter. Okay. And it'll provide, um, some text. And what I wanna encourage folks to do is to, to, to like, um, personalize the letters because.

When, when members of Congress get form letters that come from everybody, they just, they pay less attention. So if you say where you live in your district, if you say what church you belong to, if you say why this is really [00:47:00] important to you and like, customize the letters, you can do it on the website and customize it right there.

It will go to your senators and your representative and it will send it all at once to all three of them for you. So you would send the same letter to all of them. That's

Andrew Camp: awesome. Oh, that's great. Yeah. Yeah. Because again, I think in so much instances it's like you don't know where to start. And so what I really appreciate about what you guys are doing at Bread is you're giving clear, concise information with calls to action and making it maybe not easy, but easier for people to engage, you know, and um, but then also to take time to learn from your local food bank, like I mm-hmm.

You know, was able to sit with our, the director of our food bank. Um, you know, and just to hear their struggles and what they're up against, like, you know, learning, like you said, learning the local issues mm-hmm. Is super important too. Mm-hmm. You know, 'cause I think sometimes there can be a great, you know, you can impact your local area, um, you know.

Right. Um, in [00:48:00] some key ways.

Nancy Neal: One of the things I love about Bread, you know, if you go to our website, bread.org/ol, it tells you how to, it gives you step-by-step instructions about organizing letter writing for a group.

Andrew Camp: Wow.

Nancy Neal: The other thing is we have organizers positioned around the country Yeah.

Andrew Camp: Who

Nancy Neal: can help.

So either there's a list of people that you could call on to get help on the, on the offering of letters, website, or just our regular website. So if you need Yep. Guidance or you need someone to walk you through this. If this is new, you know, that's a, we have staff and then we also do these quarterly webinars.

Okay. So if you're kind of trying to figure out how to dip your toes in, you can join. Um, and they're, they're by region. Um, and there's a couple states that have them where we have some targeted work because those are important states to the, to the, um, to our legislation. But you can just join one of those calls.

You can learn what's happening and what to do. You can [00:49:00] meet your organizer. Um, and so it's a great, um, tool for just like finding other people that are doing this and finding some community around this because it can be overwhelming, um, to do and it can be a little daunting to try to figure out, you know, before I was on staff at Bread, I was at a church in Brooklyn trying to figure out how to, how to organize and offering letters with my church and Yeah.

You know, so I understand how daunting it can be. So, um, that we're here to help.

Andrew Camp: That's awesome. Really appreciate it. Yeah. And again, yeah, check out their website, you know, and again, we'll put all these links in the, you know, show notes mm-hmm. So that they're there. And you don't have to remember 'em, case I listen to podcasts, working out or driving and don't have time to click, you know, link.

But, you know, um, but I'll just

Nancy Neal: say one other thing or two more things about this. One is that, um, you have more impact when you are connected with other people doing this. And so [00:50:00] when you write as a church group, you're gonna have more impact when you're joining a group like Bread for the World, where other people around the country are also writing similar letters.

You have a greater impact. And the other thing is we have, um, lobbyists, like registered lobbyists on staff who are up on Capitol Hill all the time. And so if you let us know that you've written letters. Then our staff can say, Hey, when they go to a member of Congress, they can say, we know that these folks at this church wrote letters to you about this issue, and we wanna check in, make sure you don't have any questions, and see how we can support you and learning more about the issue.

Um, obviously telling them we want them to vote right? Or one thing or the other, whatever. Um, and then, and then, um, we also work in partnership with. Lots of denominations and churches around the country. Yeah. And so we are in coalitions, interfaith coalitions here in DC where we are kind of pulling together with a lot of other groups.

So we do not do any of this work in [00:51:00] isolation. We're not like just off on our own. We are, we are collaborating Yeah. All the time so that we can get, make the biggest, have the largest umbrella and the biggest impact that we possibly can. And so that's, um, a really important part of that work. And so I, you can trust that we're just out here leading people astray.

We're really working with lots of other church folks, so Yeah.

Andrew Camp: Around do this work together.

Nancy Neal: So it's always a, when we win, it's a collective win. Yep. No,

Andrew Camp: yeah. I just love the Yeah. The big umbrella, that place. Mm-hmm. You know, that this has, you know, across party lines, across denominational lines. Mm-hmm. Like, you know, food should be an issue that we can rally.

Ending hunger should be an issue that should unite people, because I don't think people wanna see kids go hungry. Like I just, no. That, you know, that's a core belief of my, of hope that like, you know, people want kids to be fed and well nourished and succeed in life. [00:52:00] Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, what you guys are doing, really, really appreciate it and it's been fun getting to know the organization a little better.

Um, yeah. You know, and to see like, oh, okay. Like, hey, here's what we can do. Um, you know, and how to be part of it, um, in intangible easy step-by-step ways. Mm-hmm. Um, and so some questions I use to wrap up. Um, what's the story you want the church to tell?

Nancy Neal: That's a great question. Story. I want the church to tell, I want the church to tell people that God looks at. And that God longs for their thriving and their, um, living into their full potential.

Andrew Camp: Hmm.

Nancy Neal: And that I want the church to tell that story to our elected leaders and urge them to, you know, do as God [00:53:00] calls them, to take care of those who are most vulnerable and pushed to the margins of our society who struggle with hunger and poverty and, um, medi, you know, getting access to medicine and medic medical care and, um, and to the education and dig dignity that, that all people deserve.

Yeah,

Andrew Camp: I love it. Uh, you know, it's, I love hearing people's unique answers, but the theme of the, the love of God just always keeps coming back, you know, and how it plays it out and your take. Yeah. It's just a beautiful. Love it. Uh, I love that too. And so some fun food questions to wrap up. Uh, okay. To end on a, a, you know, little lighter note.

Yeah. What's one food you refuse to eat? Oh, gosh.

Nancy Neal: I know if there's a food, I [00:54:00] refuse to eat, refuse to eat. I'm not a huge fan of eggplant, and it's really, I don't like slimy things. Anything slimy is a big no.

Andrew Camp: Okay. That's fair. Yes. Gotcha. No, that's, I, I I enjoy eggplant. I enjoy it in the Chinese method. Um, you know, like they have a, uh, it's called eggplant and fish sauce, but there's no fish in it.

But I forget things, but like, that way of preparation was always good. Um, okay.

Nancy Neal: Is it fried?

Andrew Camp: It's not fried. It's stir fried, you know, so, okay.

Nancy Neal: Yeah. Yeah, you given meat to me cooked well.

Andrew Camp: Yeah, that's fair. Yes. I think, I think my philosophy as a cook and my grounding belief is that actually people will love vegetables if they learn how to prepare them well.

Yeah. People hate vegetables because they were either canned or cooked till mushy or they just weren't treated with the respect. Um,

Nancy Neal: I had like [00:55:00] something like string string beam at prom dinner and I was like, uh, don't really, no. And I ate them and I was like, oh my gosh, these are so good. And I was like, that's because they're not from a can.

And so prepared them beautifully at this fancy downtown Charleston restaurant.

Andrew Camp: Yep. So, yep. On the other end, what's one of the best things you've ever eaten?

Nancy Neal: Oh my gosh. I love food so much. Uh, I've eaten so many good things and my brother's a chef and like a really fancy chef in New York City, and I've had some incredible food.

I'll tell you my favorite food though. Okay. Like my favorite like kind of food and that's Ethiopian food. I don't know why, but like, just there's something beautiful about like eating food with your hands that is just tasty and yummy and the bread and all the things.

Andrew Camp: Mm-hmm. And,

Nancy Neal: um, like a nice platter of Ethiopian food.

Andrew Camp: Yeah. And, and they serve it with like, [00:56:00] it's a bread, but it's a tortilla. It looks like a tortilla. Like Yeah. It's,

Nancy Neal: yeah. It's like a spongy flat. Like it has a little, almost sourdough flavor to it. Yeah. And Jira, I think is what it's called. Okay.

Andrew Camp: Yeah.

Nancy Neal: So.

Andrew Camp: Mm-hmm. There was a great op Ethiopian restaurant in Salt Lake City when we used to live in Utah.

That was just, it was so fun to go to. 'cause like you said, you get a big platter. Everybody's eating with that. Mm-hmm. The, you know, the bread and

Nancy Neal: Oh yeah.

Andrew Camp: It's just so fun.

Nancy Neal: It's, yeah, because it's family style, right? Yeah. You get the platter that you share with the whole table and you're like dipping the bread or like, you know, grabbing the food with the bread as your utensil.

Mm-hmm. And I love family style, just love family style like that.

Andrew Camp: Yeah, absolutely. And finally, there's a conversation among chefs about last meals, as in, if you knew you only had one last meal to enjoy, what would be on your table? And so if Nancy had one last meal to enjoy, [00:57:00] would it be an Ethiopian feast or would there be something else on that table?

Nancy Neal: Oh my gosh, I can't even, uh, I dunno, it could be pizza. I don't know. It could be. I've been making this like gnocchi dish with sausage. Mm-hmm. And like a cream sauce and some broccoli.

Andrew Camp: Yeah.

Nancy Neal: That can be my last dish. I don't know. I would, I think, I'll tell you who I want to make my last dish, and that would be my brother.

Andrew Camp: That's fair. Yes.

Nancy Neal: Just

Andrew Camp: give him carte blanche and be like, Hey, feed me, you know,

Nancy Neal: feed me my last meal. And whatever you come up

Andrew Camp: with,

Nancy Neal: it's gonna be perfect. Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew Camp: That, that is the best way to eat is when you can give a chef, just say, Hey, bring us, give us the food you wanna prepare. You know, and I don't.

Mm-hmm. I don't wanna see a menu. I just wanna enjoy.

Nancy Neal: Gosh, that's my favorite. My favorite. Yeah.

Andrew Camp: Yeah.

Nancy Neal: And I've had plenty of males like that with my brother, [00:58:00]

Andrew Camp: I'm sure. Yes. Yeah. It's one of the perks of being in the industry.

Nancy Neal: Right, right. Yes. It's, it's

Andrew Camp: awesome. Yeah. Well, Nancy, I've really enjoyed this, um. You know, if people want to, obviously we'll put bread for the world, um, info to connect with Bread for the World, if they wanna connect.

Is there a way to connect with you? If people wanna find out more about Nancy, is there a way to connect with you or is Bread for the World the best place to send them?

Nancy Neal: Um, they can come to bread. Um, I'm on Instagram at Nancy Ellen and on Facebook, I dunno what my thing is. Nancy Neal on Facebook. Um, I think my stuff is all private, so you have to friend me.

Andrew Camp: Yeah,

Nancy Neal: that's fair. Maybe I should open it up if, but yeah. Um. I'm also at South Minster Presbyterian Church if you're in Maryland, in the DMV area, um, at Oxen Hill on Sunday in Oxen Hill on Sunday morning,

Andrew Camp: so, yeah. Awesome. [00:59:00] Well, Nancy, appreciate this. Really appreciate seeing your heart, your passion, but also hearing about what Bread for the world's doing in this time.

Uh, so yeah. Thank you for the time.

Nancy Neal: Well, thank you, Andrew, for having me. It's been really fun to chit chat with you here and, um, and be part of your podcast. Great.

Andrew Camp: Appreciate it. Yeah. And if you've enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing, leaving a review or sharing it with others. Thanks for joining us on this episode of the Biggest Table, where we explore what it means to be transformed by God's love around the table and through food.

Until next time, bye.