The Biggest Table

Episode 49 (Ethan Amos)
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Andrew Camp: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Biggest Table. I'm your host, Andrew Camp, and in this podcast we explore the table food, eating and hospitality as an arena for experiencing God's love and our love for one another.

And today I'm thrilled to be joined by Ethan Amos.

Ethan is a local to Flagstaff, but is always happy to share that he is originally from the White Mountain Apache Reservation in White River, Arizona. He has over 18 years of experience working in the nonprofit government and corporate sectors as a subject matter expert on health related social needs and health equity issues impacting individuals and families of lower income brackets.

Now as the president and CEO of the Flagstaff Family Food Center, Ethan is the lead strategist and ambassador advancing the organization's mission to serve those experiencing hunger. Though Hunger Relief has been the organization's primary focus, Ethan has introduced several anti-hunger initiatives to address food access issues in northern Arizona. Ethan has a bachelor's degree from Northern Arizona University [00:01:00] where he studied applied indigenous studies and sociology. He lives in Flagstaff with his wife, Lucy, and their four boys, three sons, and one nephew.

So thanks for joining me today, Ethan. It's great connecting with you again, and always enjoy our conversations.

Ethan Amos: Yeah. Thank you so much, Andrew. I appreciate it. Uh, excited to have my first podcast experience with you. I'm not much, uh, of a, a podcast listener, but I think this will inspire me.

Andrew Camp: This has been a three-part series on hunger, you know, and really, as I thought about it, wanted to talk to somebody with boots on the ground like. You know, we've talked with people from Jeremy, from Baylor, um, Nancy, from Bread for the World, you know, who are doing big nationwide efforts.

But, you know, to really understand the community aspect and what food banks can and do, um, to address food equity issues in our communities. I think it's, it's super important.

Ethan Amos: Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. And maybe I'll take this time just to say I'm in my office and I have a team of [00:02:00] a ton of people who apparently just have a hard time understanding that I cannot be, uh, I'm not available at this moment, is what it says outside my door.

Yeah. I just had someone try and come in, so if there's any interruptions, I apologize, but I, I think they, they'll get it from here.

Andrew Camp: No, that'll be great. And so I just wanna start here. Um, I'm just curious like what. As you think back to your childhood and growing up, like what was your relationship to food and the table, um, and hospitality growing up?

Ethan Amos: Yeah, that's a great question. I appreciate that. Um, Andrew, can you ask that again just so I can absorb that question entirely? I feel like I missed a piece

Andrew Camp: of it. Yeah. So as you think back to your childhood and growing up, what was your relationship to food and the table? Um, for good and for bad.

Ethan Amos: Yeah. You know what?

I'll say that I had a, a great experience with food growing [00:03:00] up, but not in the way, not in the cookie, cookie cutter sense. Uh, I think that when we think about a great relationship with food now, and a great experience with food, well, you know, obviously consider diet and access and we'll consider, uh, you know, flavor and, and whether or not it was good and all those different things.

Growing up, I, I grew up in a town where there was one restaurant and it was called The Restaurant. You know, like it was, uh, we had a town of like, I don't know, 15,000 people. I don't know how big it is, but it's, um, I think poverty was a huge challenge in our community. It was on American Indian reservation and, you know, so there was some of those factors.

And then additionally, you know, when. Apache people historically, they've always been nomadic. And so when you think about trying to have a relationship with food [00:04:00] and you think about how being a nomadic culture impacts that, it gets really interesting 'cause it's, there's not a whole lot of farming. Not in a, a sense that, uh, where it's a huge part of the culture.

So there's a lot of, you know, foraging and a lot of hunting. And so growing up, I think. You could really see that. So for me, hunting was a huge part of my life. And we had game meat, I mean, almost every, for every night for dinner, which, you know, now when I think about it, in a lot of ways we were living like kings.

You know, I mean, that's just some top tier protein. Um, and then obviously there was some major issues around access that, you know, I dealt with being a part of, um, a family that, you know, didn't have a, uh, a ton of resources so. Sometimes there was, you know, trying to figure out how to get food was challenging at times.

A lot of the times we leaned on, uh, [00:05:00] our grandmother's pantry and what was in there, you know, was what was for lunch. And oftentimes we got crafty and creative. You know, a lot of it was high sugar, high processed, high, high salt foods, and so diet wasn't fantastic. But yeah, those are all some things that.

Part of my childhood that at least come to mind.

Andrew Camp: Yeah, no, I appreciate you sharing that. You know, um, you know, you talked about access and, you know, high process, high sodium, high sugar content foods. And so like how, as you think about health then, and for you and, you know, you're raising kids, like how, how has that impacted what you want to pass on to the next generation?

Ethan Amos: Uh, you know what? That question is actually really political now, right? Because of, uh, Maha and, and

Andrew Camp: Yeah.

Ethan Amos: You know, all the different things there. And as a food bank, I'm actually conflicted on where I stand just because in my home and in [00:06:00] my house, specific to the question you're asking, where, you know, we're very intentional about trying to get rid of ingredients that we know are bad for us,

Andrew Camp: right?

Ethan Amos: And. There's some new information is coming out all the time, so I'm, you know, anything I say in, in this moment will be outdated as soon as next week, you know, because the, the sweetness in a Diet Coke, you know, was bad for you and it causes cancer, but now all this research is coming out, well, you have to drink quite a lot.

To, to be impacted by that. And you'll probably drown from water internally before you get impacted by that, you know, so it's, uh, such an interesting dynamic. But I'm trying to share that challenge with my kids. I got four boys. I got three sons and one nephew who live with us long term, and, uh, we really try to share the information with them.

So, for instance, a hot topic is red, 40 [00:07:00] and two years ago. Excuse me, two years ago we were just learning about how it impacted behavior and attention. So we, our boys were reckless and wild and maybe out of a Hail Mary desperation, we were like, we, we were like, let's get rid of this.

Andrew Camp: Hmm.

Ethan Amos: Let's get rid of this red 40 out of our diet.

And so we did. And I remember my son Xavier. He was on board and we were realizing, we're talking through what that meant for us. And that very night, I guess we had a giant cheesecake in the fridge and it had the red drizzle, whatever. It was all over it. Right? And so we had finished dinner and my son was like, he had kind of had a, had a, uh, he remembered like, oh wait.

The cheesecake. So he ran into the fridge, got it for us, and he was like, wait, it's red. And I said, oh, it's all right. Let's just [00:08:00] check. And I was sure it didn't, but it did. It had, you know, red for probably a ton of it.

Andrew Camp: Yeah.

Ethan Amos: And so we, we had just made the commitment as a family to get rid of it. And we were faced with this like challenge.

I was like, you know what? I'm gonna let these boys decide. I'm like, Hey, has red 40, what are you gonna do? And so. Xavier was looking at his mom, and, and he was I think five years old, maybe four and a half at this time. He just started to to cry. He was like, we've gotta throw this away.

Andrew Camp: Hmm.

Ethan Amos: The family sat up, it's all, you know, 5-year-old boys, so they're all, you know, crying and, and we throw it in the trash.

And so we were talking like, oh, you know, that's wasteful. And maybe getting rid of this red 40 is not gonna solve the attention. Maybe it's not throwing this cake away. Maybe it's contributing to a mass waste problem. And both of those things are [00:09:00] important to us, but we made a decision and a commitment we're not gonna waste moving forward.

We're just not gonna buy it. And that was two years ago. And so that was, um. You know, a journey that we've been successful in. And then I have seen behavioral changes in my voice and we've gotten rid of different things like, you know, sodium benzoate, and we try not to combine that with vitamin C. We're just learning about what we can control.

And I'm talking through these things with my wife and my kids, and we're making decisions as a family. Um, there have been, our agreement is, agreement is kind of, you know, on birthdays or parties or whatever, like, you know. Have at it, you know, whatever. Um, but overall we wanna focus on our health and that means re reducing or controlling what we put in our bodies.

So that's kinda an elaborate walkthrough of our decision making process. But it's been a really cool experience. It's really brought us together when it comes to food.

Andrew Camp: No, I appreciate like, yeah, and just [00:10:00] bringing your kids into the matter, you know, and helping them have the choice and the dignity, you know, and it's not just parent parental authority dictating which it is, you know, like obviously you and your wife guide the discussion.

But I love it that, you know, with that cheesecake, giving them the choice, um, yeah. You know, after that commitment, I feel just honors the dignity of, of the kids.

Ethan Amos: Yeah, no, I, it, it was, uh, something that we talk about frequently actually, actually, it's just the, the cheesecake experience for sure. Um, and I always feel weird.

I'm like, man, people are judging us for throwing, you know, wasting. And I was like, you know, we we're not gonna solve the world by dating that cheesecake. So, no, I'll share it. But, you know, as I've been in my role, if I switch gears now, because I talked about in my house, this is how we operate. As a food bank, you know, sometimes I'm conflicted because you know, there's food that goes in and out and sometimes that food is probably not very healthy.[00:11:00]

And oftentimes people who get in line for food are folks who are all already pre uh, dispose of certain health disparities and, you know, but who am I to rob them of choice? You know? Right. And if someone's told me, said, Hey, you're not gonna have red 40 anymore. I probably would've reacted differently than me getting information and making a decision with my family and choosing to.

Right. And so, instead of robbing our clients of choice, we've really tried to increase education and our community, uh uh, around. Health and access and, and you know, once you start talking about health, it's like, who's right? Because you have your camp that, or Andrew Camp, sorry. You have your, your camp that are, um, saying that, you know, I like vegans and carnivores.

I mean the, the two contrasting differences yet people have been successful on both sides and are heavily opinionated on both sides and [00:12:00] will tell you what's right or wrong from their lens, you know? And so with, with food, it just gets really emotional and weird and political, and one way we've really seen that come out is.

Um, you know, a a, a recent house bill, there was a, a bill that has passed, I think in Oklahoma and a couple other states, and that bill was to remove junk food from SNAP eligible purchases.

Andrew Camp: Hmm.

Ethan Amos: Now in theory, excuse me. In theory, I love that. Right? Absolutely. Let's do this, let's make the big food companies who are putting all this toxins into our foods and feeding us all this junk, let's punish them by not buying their food.

I get it. But when you think about what that looks like in practice, you have to consider the grandmother in Leupp Arizona who is watching her kids on no income, her [00:13:00] grandkids on no income, and she walks them to school and. She buys them a granola bar or a, um, blueberry muffin for breakfast because that's all they can afford and Snap pays for it.

And she buys a coffee and they walk to school. She drops 'em off and she walks back. They do that every morning. Well, if this bill had passed where junk food is, um, is removed from eligible purchases, the way they describe candy in those hospitals is, is. Almost exactly how you would describe a oatmeal bar, right.

Uh, you know, a protein bar even in some cases. And so it's like, well now we're gonna punish the people who have the least amount of resources to push forward our health agenda that is rooted in something else. And so it's, I, I don't get it. You know, so I'm all over the place when it comes to these things.

Andrew Camp: No, and I, I really appreciate like, [00:14:00] you know, you raising this tension that, you know, I'm sure Flagstaff family food center's not the only food bank that wrestles with these decisions. And, you know, as we look at, you know, snap, um, you know, and, uh, wic, you know, and benefits that help low income and food insecure populations, like, it's not an easy one cut answer, you know?

Right. So just bringing up this tension, like, you know, 'cause then you have, you know. You have the food available and you wanna help people have dignity too, you know? And so like, you're not only dealing with the political issues, you're dealing with cultural issues and, you know, um, the dig, you know, the worth and dignity of people.

And so like, I really appreciate you bringing up this tension. And so, like, as you guys wrestle through this tension, like how, how have you sought to, you know, just bring the dignity of people into this and not just give them a box, but maybe help them be able to choose. 'cause I know sometimes that's a huge wrestling [00:15:00] point I think for food banks.

Ethan Amos: Yeah. Um, first off, I really appreciate the way you worded that. Uh, I think for me it is a bigger picture and it is a bigger issue and lots of food banks are wrestling with this, you know, and, but I would say also food banks are at an interesting time, uh, where I don't know if we can do things the way we used to anymore.

Andrew Camp: Hmm.

Ethan Amos: We used to be able to just. Open up the warehouse. Open up the warehouse, and you come get your food and see you next week. And that's it. Don't talk to me about, don't gimme any feedback. Don't tell me what your experience was like. I don't wanna know why you're coming here to give you food and go. It doesn't cut it.

You know, and for us here at the Flagstaff Family Food Center, we highly value the customer service piece. You know, we have a congregate meals program, and that's a place where we serve hot food and lunches and folks can get in line. [00:16:00] I mean, I tell my team, I'm like, we, we wanna run like a restaurant, right?

Don't, don't, don't gimme the warehouse health codes, gimme the restaurant codes. What, what is the restaurant downtown that's super successful? What are their standards? Let's apply that here, you know, and my team is on board and we've, with that kind of energy, we've just attracted people who want to be a part of that, kind of creating that kind of experience for our clients.

Because, you know, it's, it's not about whether they deserve it or not, but it's about, it's, it's about us having an opportunity to serve people. And when we have that opportunity, I just don't, it doesn't make sense to do it halfway. We, we go a hundred percent and an extra mile to make sure they have a great experience.

And I think it just comes with, you know, uh, desire to be hospitable. And that's been a part of my life because my grandmother. She was extremely [00:17:00] hospitable. My grandfather was extremely hospitable. There were folks who would, who would walk to my grandfather's house, and I spent a lot of time there with my grandparents on my mom's side and my dad's side.

But in this case, I'm referring to my mom's side. My grandfather, when he was alive, you know, folks would come and knock on the door and they would be inebriated and leaning and, and you know, a little bit of stench and it just, but he welcomed them. He said, come on in, sit down.

Andrew Camp: Yeah.

Ethan Amos: And they would sit down and me and my cousins would witness this.

Hmm. And he, the person would sit down, he'd go pour a pot of coffee, almost as if he was expecting them. He'd make a sandwich, ask him if they wanted mayo or not ask him, you know, if they wanted, uh, cheddar cheese or, or Swiss cheese, just taking this time, you know, and then, and then making it, serving them.

With a plate and not throwing it in a plastic, uh, plastic bag and, and [00:18:00] sending them off. Right. You know, so I saw this over and over and over again. So it's ingrained in me to where, you know what, when it comes to hospitality, and especially when it comes to food, like we're gonna do our best. Um, and my team has been fantastic at that.

You know, I've really enjoyed seeing them. For instance, we've got Slack messages on our phone. And, um, you know, we're, we're in this warehouse on this industrial road, right? And there's businesses all around us. And, uh, they started doing traffic or, uh, I'm sorry, construction over here on, on Steve's Boulevard and over here on the other entrance.

And so we are on Slack this morning. My team said, Hey, just FYI, there's the only way to get in is through that far entrance over on fourth Street,

Andrew Camp: right? Or

Ethan Amos: whatever it was, way down there. And, uh, my team immediately responded saying, okay, let me update our clients. We refer to 'em as our clients, our neighbors, and we're posting on social, social media.

Hey, [00:19:00] FYI, if you're headed here this week, just know you gotta go through that entrance.

Andrew Camp: Hmm.

Ethan Amos: Businesses aren't doing that, you know, and, and for us, we, we have that kind of a standard here, and I think that the old way of doing food banking is, I mean, it's not acceptable. And sometimes it's a resource issue, but for us we can do more.

So we'll do more.

Andrew Camp: Right. And as you've done more, it's not, you know, you're seeing an increase in the people you're serving. Um, you know, so it's not, you know, like you, I was looking over you guys Re, Flagstaff Family Food Center released a 2024 food equity report. You know, um, that will include in the show notes 'cause it has some great valuable information.

But you know, you. In it. The report mentions you guys from 2019 to TH 2023, you've seen a 200% increase, you know, in the amount of families served through your, the food bank. And the 70, I think it was 79% increase, you know, at your kitchen. [00:20:00] So you're seeing more need while also rethinking. What it means to serve your clients and, um, be hospitable.

And so how, like, how are you holding these intention? Because, you know, it'd be easy to, to skirt the hospitality issue just because okay, we have more people. We just gotta move stuff. And so again, you're, you're faced with this tension of we're serving more, and so how do we actually be hospitable in the midst of serving more?

Ethan Amos: Yeah. Oh man. That's a good question that I don't know if it's easy to answer, but that's because. I don't know if we've met my standard for hospitality while trying to scramble, trying to keep up with the need. Right. Yeah. So it's like the, the, the desire to be hospitable is there, the desire to have that top tier customer services there and we're getting better at it, so I'm pleased with.

The pursuit of excellence, and we've still got a long way to go, you know, and I think we, we do [00:21:00] feedback, uh, we collect feedback from our clients frequently, and thankfully many of them are having a great experience. There are, there are a few, you know, uh, uh, folks out there who wanna share their individual experience.

And sometimes it's negative and sometimes it's just a, a Murphy's law collision of things that happens for them, you know? And we've gotta take ownership of that. Um, and at the same time I try, I, I try to tell my team, Hey, do the best you can with what you have. Make the best decision you can. If you make a mistake, we'll deal with it when you make, uh, whenever, uh, we need to and we'll move forward.

And so with that kind of logic and approach to this pursuit of excellence, we've given ourself a lot of grace. Um, and so now exploring the capacity side. Capacity side has been most challenging because we have not had a facility that has allowed us to meet [00:22:00] the need. And so we've had to undergo some major construction projects, but that's significant fundraising and I'm, I feel like I'm really good at.

You know, team culture and uh, values and standards when it comes to pursuing the excellence we're talking about, and then the construction. I feel like I understand the order of operations there and let's get going, but when you need to fundraise, that's where the X factor is like, dang it.

Andrew Camp: Yeah.

Ethan Amos: Um, so, you know, we've had a couple capital campaigns that weren't necessarily successful, but it gave us what we need to get the job done.

Um, to redo our parking lot, to add a loading dock to, uh, redo the pavement, uh, and, and stripe lines, uh, increase our, uh, capacity at our kitchen as well, which is a different location and, and do some major renovations there to allow us to feed more people. Um, and. Uh, most recently [00:23:00] we've were successful in fundraising to start our next project, which is a agency shopping center.

Wow. So when it, you know, it comes to food, uh, we don't like when people are just dependent on the food center because what if something happens, right? We want that dependent, scattered out,

Andrew Camp: and that

Ethan Amos: scatter, that scattering out will, will create additional resources, and the resources will empower people as opposed to have them be dependent on us.

Our agency shopping center should really focus on spreading out that impact, allowing agencies to come shop with us and get food for their pantries and allowing folks to, um, uh, get services through them. So we're really excited about that and we're continuing to meet the need. But, you know, as we've met the need we're, we're learning.

We haven't met the need, but as we're getting closer to meeting the need, we're realizing again how much more there is to do. You know? So I think now the challenge [00:24:00] is, is understanding where our capacity is. Like, 'cause you can only work effectively within your capacity. And we may be nearing that here pretty soon.

Andrew Camp: No, and you know, the, the need in Coconino County is large. You know, Coconino County is the second largest land mass County in the US if I'm not mistaken, only behind San Bernardino. Um, so we're dealing with a vast population. Um, you know, you're, you have indigenous populations scattered throughout that are more at risk.

Um, as well, and you know, and so, you know, if you just think of Flagstaff, it's one thing, but when you think of the larger, broader Coconino county, um, you know, the need is, is vast. Uh, and, and probably overwhelming, um, at times.

Ethan Amos: Right. Absolutely. I appreciate you laying the context for the work that we do because when we're so close to tribal tribal nations, a couple very large [00:25:00] tribal nations.

And when our neighbors who come to get food from us, 54% in our recent survey identified as American Indian. Hmm. And so it's like, you know, how do we factor that in? You know, I'm from White River, I'm, you know, I'm light-skinned, but I'm from the res, you know, I've been there my, my whole life up until my, uh, in my youth and then into my adulthood.

I came up here to Flagstaff and have even still just found myself around natives. More often than not, and it's just my community that I feel comfortable with. And so I feel like I have a pretty good head on my shoulders when it comes to decision makings and inclusion of our relatives out there who are coming to get food from us, from the reservation, or folks who live here.

Uh, but at the same time, you know, the needs change over time and my personal lived experience from 2002 is probably quite different from 2025. And so. The question is how do I challenge myself to grow [00:26:00] and learn, but also empower my team to get, uh, knowledge and skills so that they can be effective when serving, uh, folks out there.

So I. You know, I feel like we're doing pretty good with, with that. We, we had a consultation on it, our, a number of occasions with, um, Jonathan Nez, who is the past Navajo Nation president. And, um, he has been extremely helpful for us. It's been an honor to get to know him and, you know, he's someone who really values the human relationship.

Food as well. And so he gives us a very empowering and unique perspective and I've shared that experience and insights with my team. Um, and his wife affiliate is, uh, continue to support us. They're both in Flagstaff and, and want to give back and are helping in this way. So yeah, definitely different for sure.

Andrew Camp: Can you give us, like, for, for our listeners, you know, many of us not familiar with, you know, the reservation culture, indigenous populations [00:27:00] of struggles. We probably hear more negative than positive, but like at times. But can you give us all just a small glimpse of the struggle, especially when it relates to food insecurity?

Like what, what are the struggles, the barriers that indigenous populations living on reservations face? When it comes to food. 'cause I feel like that's a unique aspect for Flagstaff in Coconino County.

Ethan Amos: Yeah. So I think for those listenings that do not know already, uh, each reservation is different, right?

And each tribe is different. And, you know, relatives in Alaska, you, you call 'em Alaska natives. And down here, you know, uh, indigenous, um, communities like to be referred to by their tribal name in many cases, or just that, their name, their name, you know, so like. Navajo Nation, um, they refer to themselves as Dine, and that is a, uh, a name that comes from [00:28:00] them for them or by them, you know, so it's really cool.

So I, I, I think what I'm trying to paint the picture for here is the individual nature of each of the communities that we serve. And even though poverty has some con common denominators and poverty, uh, kind of uses the same tools, it does look very different in terms of the tribe that you're nearest by.

So for those of you listening, it's good to know that as you began to serve your communities specifically to our region here, I would say one of the major issues revolves around access, specifically around proximity.

Andrew Camp: Mm-hmm.

Ethan Amos: You know, uh, Navajo Nation oftentimes has a very spread out community where it's just so people live so far from each other.

They live so far from gas stations and, and, uh, restaurants, especially grocery stores. Sometimes when, you know, I. When I run out of an ingredient when I'm cooking, I can just run two [00:29:00] fries down the road and, and I'm right there, run right back. I don't even have to turn off the stove. I'm kidding. I turn off the stove, you know, you or my wife takes over or whatever, but mm-hmm.

When you eliminate all those conveniences and you find yourself, you know, rural community, and obviously this is not specific. Tribes, but there's those challenges around proximity. And then mm-hmm. Oftentimes when proximity is a major issue, jobs are, are difficult to come by, where do you go to for work?

Where do you go for school? Um, and so that creates a, a bit of a challenge where, you know, now reduced income and re reduced access, create hunger, and, you know, people are resilient. With different solutions and systems. You know, for instance, many of the folks who come and get food from us are coming from the reds.

And so they'll come and it's not like they're driving two hours to the food bank and then turning around, [00:30:00] but they're coming, they're making their trip to town once or twice a month, and they're stopping at the food bank. And when they get here on a few different occasions, I've seen people park out towards the, the front of the road and they'll get out and they're looking through their groceries.

And they're, they're taking notes because they're gonna go to the grocery store, create a menu for the week based off what they have, starting with the, uh, groceries in the, from the food bank, right? So if we, if we have a ton of lentils, if we have a ton of, uh, chicken, if we have a ton of something, they create their menus based off that to offset their costs, you know, so, um.

Traveling back and forth is, is quite a challenge. And that's assuming you have a vehicle, it's assuming you have gas to pay for the vehicle. It's just making all these different assumptions and so that's what hunger looks like.

Andrew Camp: Alright. Appreciate that. And again, yeah, hunger is not just, you know, access to [00:31:00] food, it's the proximity, it's transportation, you know, it's jobs, it's healthcare, you know.

And even for Flagstaff, I think it's, it's um, housing. You know, housing plays a huge role. I think, you know, you guys have mentioned in, in the role of food security, uh, for, for your clients.

Ethan Amos: Yeah, for our clients. You know, we, we, uh, I mean basically the question is, you know, would you rather pay rent or you, you have to pay rent, you have to pay utilities, and you have to pay for medical bills and you can only pay for two of them.

You know, which one are you gonna pay for? Well, you're not gonna pay for food. 'cause that wasn't an option. People just sacrifice food all the time. Right. Yeah. You know, and it's like they're, they're trying to keep up with these other bills and food is the first thing to go.

Andrew Camp: Hmm.

Ethan Amos: And so it's like you can't negotiate with your landlord in most cases.

You can't negotiate with, um, utility companies. [00:32:00] Uh, you can actually make sure you be resource resourceful, right? You know? Yeah. Make sure you call and, and see if they can give you a better deal or whatever, but most times they're not gonna do it. Groceries instead of buying something, you know, that's high protein, lean, fresh green, you can buy something that's 50 cents and that's usually ramen or something unhealthy and highly processed, so people make those sacrifices.

Andrew Camp: No, I, you know, and that's, um, when I was talking with Jeremy Everett from Baylor, you know, he talks about that, you know, food security and that is sort of the litmus test for the health of a community that like you can judge the health of a community by their food security because like you said, food is the first thing to go.

So if they have good housing, if they're able to have access to affordable healthcare and, um, have a well paying job. You know, they will then be able to hopefully get the food they need, you know? [00:33:00] Um, so you know what, what you're just saying is like, yeah, if without secure housing, without, you know, affordable healthcare and, you know, you know, with, if you're not sitting on medical debt, like food disappears, you know, and you have to make the sacrifices.

Mm-hmm. Um, you know, and so what, as you think about Flagstaff Family Food Center and maybe food banks. As a whole, but particularly in Flagstaff. Like what role do you see the family food center in addressing, you know, the systemic issues of hunger?

Ethan Amos: Um, so at the Flagstaff Family Food Center.

You know, I think we we're a bigger food bank than most food banks, and we're not giant. There's a lot of giant food banks out there that we're not. But on the grand scheme of all food banks in the country, we're probably larger than 75% of them. So we have a few more resources. We have a team of almost 40 people.

We have. Volunteers, uh, about 90 [00:34:00] to a hundred each day to serve probably 2000 plus people a day, depending on how you, uh, break down that food box. What I mean by that is, you know, does the food box serve one person, a family of four? And how do you count that? Right? So that's where I get that 2000, 2300 person per day number.

Um, all that to say, we have a bit more resources than. I think a smaller food ban would, and I just wanna say I recognize that challenge. Uh, and I have a board of directors who have been educated on the challenge and the need, and they have been so helpful. They've helped me dream bigger and think things through, uh, much more critically.

They've allowed me to understand. Business concepts the way that I need to, and that empowers me to be able to empower my team. And so I've got a fantastic team. [00:35:00] Probably the, the best team I'll ever have. I mean, they, I'm so confident that they, they can't get much better than this. They're highly skilled, highly passionate, and um, obviously we could get better in other areas.

And if you're listening to this, ignore, wear all that. And you're on my, if you're on my team, you're listening. I didn't say that. I'm kidding. I told 'em all the time. So now to, to answer the question, we're at a place right now at the Flagstaff Family Food Center where we can go upstream with half our team and half our team can be upstream, and half our team can be downstream.

So folks who are in the river who are drowning, we can figure out why they're drowning.

Andrew Camp: Right

Ethan Amos: up there because at the bottom of the river, there's people in the water who need to be saved. Right. And so I think, uh, I got that analogy from, uh, Ross over at the shelter. And so I [00:36:00] got half my team jumping in trying to save people, and I got other half trying to figure out why.

And I just wanted to explain that analogy in case there were listeners who were, um. Curious about the upstream approach, right? And so the upstream approach is to find the solution for hunger. It's a bit pretentious because if someone could have solved hunger, someone would've did it somewhere. Right, right.

Yep. The reason why that logic is, is, uh, doesn't make any sense, is because it takes everyone to solve hunger, and we've never done that as a entire world. So as a community, how do we increase resilience? That's really what the question is because let's use Flagstaff as an example. And Flagstaff, we have major highways, the I 17 and the I 40, and those two roads provide almost all our food, probably 95% of it.

We don't grow our own food here. We, we just, we don't, we have the, don't have the infrastructure, the water. We have a really high elevation with a short growing [00:37:00] seasons. I mean, what are we gonna do? And you know, flashback back to 2020, there was a pandemic. All our grocery stores we're empty in three days of all the essentials.

And it was just like, wow, we're so darn vulnerable. And I recognize that it was like that in a lot of places. But the interesting thing is that when it push comes to shove, people who are at the bottom of the I 17 and uh, the other major cities on the I 40, uh, there's a lot of them. They're gonna look out for themselves first, and then they're gonna send food elsewhere.

We're in a vulnerable spot and we need to understand that. And so our upstream issue of trying to, to get ahead of the, the. Hunger is, is much more complex than finding enough food because then how do we solve and increase our resilience, uh, for the future? And so we're still exploring what that looks like.

I know that it's a community education [00:38:00] piece. Everything I just shared, you know, our decision makers should know that our mayor, our county supervisors should know that. So we've been very active in. Creating educational platforms and opportunities for these decision makers to learn about our, the vulnerabilities of our food system in Northern Arizona.

And I have a team who, uh, talk about that much more articulate in academic than I do, but that's my version.

Andrew Camp: Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah. 'cause you know, you don't just think of, you know, access to food, you know, for individual families, but access to the community, you know, and we are. Flagstaff's a beautiful place.

My wife and I feel privileged to live here, but we are an isolated, you know, community where, like you said, elevation short growing season, um, you know, all play into what the community is able to do. And so, you know, we're reliant on other communities, [00:39:00] um, to get the food here. Um, so, you know, and you guys are also doing, you know, a food, an end hunger summit, you know, which, um, you know, I, I appreciate and I'm looking forward to, um, myself.

Um, but yeah, so like how does the, you know, 'cause Flagstaff Family Food Center won't be able to solve hunger by themselves. And so like, you know, as you think about it, what, this is probably a silly question, who needs to be involved as we think about ending hunger?

Ethan Amos: I'll call it a silly question 'cause I don't have the answer that No.

Right. That puts the pressure on you and not me. But you're right. You know, it's, uh, it's like who, who should be involved and, and when I think about it, it's, it's, I can't think of anyone who shouldn't be involved. You know, I just to make this work. Everyone from the mayor, which thankfully in Flagstaff right now, we have a fantastic mayor who understands hunger and advocates for us and a council and, you know, [00:40:00] a great support system around us.

But everyone from, gosh, the per the business owner who sells cars, why should he or she be involved? It's got nothing to do with that person. Well, Babbitt Ford owner Alan Chan, is on my board of directors. He's a past CPA, he's excellent business person. He is, uh, such a, a great help to me. He, he gives me ideas, he helps me think things through.

Um, he helps me look at my financials and, and I can ask him the silly questions. He explains them to me so that way I can run the business properly. Um, I have there, there's folks out there who, who can contribute to the cause or empower people who can be [00:41:00] contributing to the cause. In an effective way, and it's gotta be that multi-layered system where maybe if you don't have time to go to the food bank and volunteer, maybe you can't work there.

Maybe you can't go and, and, uh, um, donate, you know, a thousand bucks every month. Like, and that's what we've reduced it to. If you can't do that, then you're not helping. But no, like there's so many deep layers of things that are happening. I mean, Andrew, I would probably not do this, agree to do this, and I've declined a few of these terms of opportunities.

Just because I didn't buy into what the person was doing. But after knowing you for a couple years and just seeing your passion for wanting to, to share the information and the narrative, and you, uh, your experience with food in the past is very important to you. And you want other people to have a great experience with food.

All those things made me say yes to this. Mm-hmm. You know, and this shares information with people who are listening and they're gonna go back and, and wanna make a difference. And so for me, [00:42:00] at, at, at a minimum. The involvement could be the person saying, you know what, I'm gonna, I'm gonna learn more today about what I can do.

Or, you know what, I have surplus on my garden this year. I'm gonna donate that. And it's not just a gesture, it's, it means so much to people. So, you know, and, and maybe the last piece I'll say about that is. Um, you know, last weekend I was working, uh, I had worked 16 or 17 days in a row. I mean, just, just nonstop.

And I did it to myself, you know, and, and I do it to, and happens frequently, but I'm trying to figure out how to manage all that. Also, I enjoy it. So no pity party for me. I was at the kitchen because chef needed a day off and, and there was no coverage. So I was in there, you know, helping up helping. Cook and chopped veggies or whatever.

And there was this guy who I [00:43:00] recognized he was chopping, uh, veggies next to me and we were talking and I was like, I know this guy from, where do I know him from? Where do I know him from? And it was just one of those conversations where I couldn't quite get an opportunity to politely ask. 'cause I feel like we knew each other.

Um, and once, uh, another person came in later. I asked, uh, I said, Hey, who's the, can you remind me who this person is? And she said, oh, that's blank blank. He's one of our clients. And I said, oh, wow. Yeah, of course I know that, I know that I, I couldn't recall because it was a different setting, right? And so I talked to, um, my uh, uh, culinary manager when he showed up.

I said, oh, how'd that happen? And my senior culinary manager was showed up. No one was in the building. He needed help. And there was two clients that were outside and he said, Hey guys, I am not gonna be able to make a dinner [00:44:00] for anyone tonight. Would you, unless I get help, would you be willing to help me?

And they said, yeah. So he brought them in, showed 'em how, you know, some, some, uh, uh, washing hands and, and food care, food safety stuff, and then put 'em right to work. And they were there just working. So I showed up, the culinary manager went to his doctor appointment and I was working with everyone. A couple volunteers showed up, culinary came, manager came back, and that's how it all happened.

So for me, I'm like, you know what, not every client can help. Not every client needs to help, but if they can help just about anyone,

Andrew Camp: no, for sure. I appreciate that. I love, it's, yeah, so cool that, you know, just people willing to step up and fill a need. You know, and, um, love what you've shared about how people can be involved.

Whether it's just learning about what, what are the food insecurity needs in your community to volunteering at a food, food bank, you know, or, you know, it looks different for each person, you know, and, but we can all [00:45:00] take a small part, you know, and, um, that's what I've enjoyed sort of as I've done this sort of hunger series, you know, and what it looks like to end hunger, like.

The different aspects we can all be involved in, you know, and Bread for the World offers letter writing campaigns where you can write letters to your local politicians or, you know, being involved in a food bank. And so wherever. And, and it goes back to capacity. Like what is your capacity, um, you know, in this season of life for yourself and that, that will change, you know?

And so hopefully just raising awareness can maybe push, push somebody to make a decision, um, to get involved.

Ethan Amos: Yeah, absolutely.

Andrew Camp: There's been a lot going on politically, you know, and what, how has that impacted you guys, and what is that, the current political situation, how is that impacting food banks, um, , for you guys, but is, are there ways to help other people understand what, you know, how political decisions are impacting food [00:46:00] banks currently as well?

Ethan Amos: Yes, with, with Snap being reduced, we are going to have a significant impact. I mean, snap was an anti-hunger strategy. Snap helped people stay, uh, be stable and work and provide, uh, and oftentimes many sometimes snap offset the grocery, uh, bill so they could pay for childcare so they could go to work, you know?

And so now, uh, it's just gonna turn into a major mess. Sometimes these work requirements are. Um, are gonna be disadvantageous to people who are just trying to stay alive. Uh, so who know, who knows? I try not to get riled up 'cause there was a whole lot of unknown at this point. And I hate to speculate 'cause speculation won't turn into fear mongering.

But as a food bank, I'll tell you this. What we were do doing before was not working. What we were doing before was not enough. So I'm all for change. I'm all for reset [00:47:00] buttons. However, there is a right way to do things in a wrong way. And from my food bank perspective, removing SNAP in the way that they, uh, have agreed to do so is the wrong way.

And there will be people who will be highly impacted from this. And food banks don't have capacity. To, to meet the need. So, um, for me, I, I can't help but think about as a food bank, we're preparing for a famine type of rush toward food banks. Will that happen? I don't know, and I hope not. And, and, but as when you, when you have a business or a company, you prepare for the worst and the best, right?

And so I'm preparing for the words, and I do see. Droves of people coming to us because it's happened in certain times in the past when our economy was shaken up just a little bit. And so, uh, politically, I'm, I'm a bit worried, you [00:48:00] know, um, I'm confident that there's someone out there who will have come up with a, a sharp idea.

Someone came up with snap some, someone will come up with something else. Uh, it's just that transition time. It's gonna be challenging.

Andrew Camp: I appreciate that. Um, you know, and just the capacity of you guys to start planning and thinking through okay, you know, hopefully it doesn't come to this, but let's not be caught, you know?

Right. Yeah. Unprepared, you know, how can we begin to set, you know, stuff in progress so that if the worst case situation does come, we we're ready to serve the community. Um, which really applaud you guys on, on taking that focus and initiative.

Ethan Amos: Thank you. We'll see, you know, we'll see what happens. We'll, we'll, we're trying to bring food banks together, stay unified and, and work together.

Andrew Camp: Mm-hmm. And so as we begin to close, like as you think, you know, again, people listen to podcasts from all over, right? So like, you know, some people are in Flagstaff, some people are in, [00:49:00] um, Brazil, or you know, all over the us. So like, what, what would you wanna say to a global audience as somebody as a CEO of a, of a food bank?

You know, what would you want to say to the listeners?

Ethan Amos: Yeah, maybe I'll, you know, in this instance, one of my driving inspirations is Jesus. I mean, just the way he used food to interact with people. The food was a bridge for him to say what he needed to say and for him to do what he needed to do. And sometimes what he needed to do was just love people.

And in many cases he just did that through food and water. Uh, food and water were a huge part of his ministry, so I don't think he can be effective at ministry without considering those who don't have food.

Andrew Camp: Hmm.

Ethan Amos: [00:50:00] And I don't know what that looks like for the listener. And if your ministry is like my grandfather's, you know, handing out sandwiches.

To me, that's where the fulfillment comes from in ministry and that we can't lose sight of that. We can't forget that, you know? Mm-hmm. And I think it's the heart behind the volunteer. It's the heart behind the donor, the heart behind a good community member. And, and to me, that's what Jesus, that I, I would say.

Serving the poor, feeding his children is an absolutely high priority for him, you know? And so, yeah, that's my encouragement. You know, as a food bank, CEO, there's a lot to do. I, I don't know how long I'll be a food bank, CEO, maybe I'll, I'll change careers. Uh, but, but for me, I, I don't think I'll ever stop doing what I've learned here at the food bank.

It's gonna be a huge part of my life, and I'm blessed for that.

Andrew Camp: No, I appreciate, I appreciate that word about Jesus using food and, you know, he couldn't minister to people without feeding them. [00:51:00] Um, it's a great reminder. Yeah. Um, you know, and some, some fun questions about food as we wrap up. Um, just to lighten, you know, in, on a slightly lighter note, what's one food you refuse to eat?

Ethan Amos: Uh, bananas. Um, okay. Yeah. Yeah. People, you know. We bring bananas in the warehouse sometimes. And, um, I'll, there's, there's all kinds of inside jokes. My team knows I hate bananas and sometimes they'll leave one under a paper here because I can smell it.

Andrew Camp: Yeah.

Ethan Amos: I, I think if I can get past the smell and the way it looks and all that stuff, if I eat it, I don't know if the taste is really that bad.

Nah. You don't know. I think about it. Pretty gross. Banana

Andrew Camp: bananas. Fair enough. Alright. What's one of the best things you've ever eaten?

Ethan Amos: Oh man, I had a roommate from Nepal once. His name was Navin, super swell guy. He would make this kind of Nepalese curry almost, you know, several times a week. And I'd [00:52:00] just have, I, I, he made it so frequent that I would just start to watch him.

I'd be like, Hey, Navin need a hand and I'll just try to learn. And so I feel like I got it close to me. People would come over and eat and they always say like, oh, this is so different. I'm like, oh, it's not. Regular curry that you're used to probably is kind of a Nepalese kick to it. And so, but that right there, you know, that's just something I think about often out Navin, if you're out there, hope you're doing well, man.

Andrew Camp: That's cool. And finally, there's a conversation amongst chefs about last meals, as in, if you knew you only had one more meal left to enjoy, what would it be? So if Ethan had one last meal to enjoy, what might be on your table?

Ethan Amos: I mean, if, you know, if my last meal is soon, I'll gimme that, you know, ham and cheese sandwich, uh, with some blueberries.

That's it. 'cause that's what my kids will put together.

Andrew Camp: Okay. I love it. Yeah.

Ethan Amos: Yeah. So I think, you know, that's what they're, they can make, they're most proud of and [00:53:00] they try to do this good Ramsey critique of it. And, you know, they asked me to critique it and it's a fun time we have so. If I'm going out soon, you know, gimme that one.

If I'm going out, you know, later on, you know, gimme some kind of, you know, elk chili or, uh, you know, some kind of game meat that I can, you know, that's, that's where I'm going out on

Andrew Camp: for sure. No, I love it. Well, Ethan, uh, really appreciated this conversation. I appreciate your heart, um, your wisdom, your tenderness, um, with which you approach.

Um, life, you know, will obviously include Flagstaff family food center, you know, website in there. Anything else, you know, where people, any last words for our listeners?

Ethan Amos: Yeah, you know what, I, I'm, I'm always available. I love to talk food and I, I guess I'm quite busy, so my email's ethan@hotfood.org. You know, if you want to, uh, reach out and chat, I'm always open to it.

And, uh, you, I may [00:54:00] have said some things that I would probably second guess here and I pro, I don't know that I answered all your questions fully, you know, when I was thinking about it, but I think. For a first time podcast experience, I, I had a good time, so I'm thankful. Appreciate it for the opportunity.

Andrew Camp: No, thank you for taking the time and yeah, do reach out to Ethan or find your local food bank, you know, and just get to know what the needs are, you know, whether you may not start volunteering, but, you know, I think I found joy just in sitting with Ethan and learning, you know, about, um, what they're doing, but also the hunger, you know, the issues we face in Coconino.

Uh, so if you've enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing, leaving a review or sharing it with others. Thanks for joining us on this episode of the biggest Table, where we explore what it means to be transformed by God's love around the table and through food. Until next time, bye.